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I don't even understand the point of code-share flight numbers. The first thing I do when I see one is look up the original flight number. Most flight search en

I don't even understand the point of code-share flight numbers. The first thing I do when I see one is look up the original flight number. Most flight search engines will also show you the original carrier. Why not just get rid of them and book on the original flight number? Is it needed somehow in their systems to know how a flight was booked or what flights are eligible? Can that be fixed instead of the flight numbers?

stephen_g 2y ago
Generally it's easier to book a trip with legs on different carriers if they have a codeshare arrangement, because you can just do it as a single itinerary through one carrier's web site. Otherwise you often need a travel agent to be able to put together the itinerary (that's not strictly necessary though, just the way they make it work so no technical reason they couldn't just offer non codeshare flight numbers) The other thing is airline points/status - sometimes you get no status points/miles on non-codeshare partner flight numbers but you do on the codeshare flight numbers.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  I guess my question is, is it easier to upgrade the carrier website flight booking engines and mileage programs to deal with the original carrier flight numbers rather than upgrading all of the systems across the industry to deal with a larger name space for flight numbers universally?
- bruce511 2y ago
  Also, connections. If it's a connecting flight, and the incoming flight is running late, then the airline "sorts you out". Basically they know sboit your connection and make a plan. I've been on a plane out of Heathrow that waited for a 30-min late incoming flight. I've also been on a late flight where my connection has been rebooked for me because we arrived late. If you book "2 tickets" you're basically a no-show to the first flight, and you're on your own dealing with that airline.
  - skissane 2y ago
    I did that once - book connecting flights on two different tickets - and although I ended up actually making the connection (despite the first flight running 2-3 hours late), the experience was so nerve-racking I swore I’d never do that again. It helped that the flight I was connecting to ended up running late too. The reason I did it was it was a personal side-trip (to see family) on an international work trip, and although my employer would let me mix work and personal travel on their booking (provided I reimbursed them for the cost of the personal portion), the bureaucracy involved had put me off going down that path.
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      > provided I reimbursed them for the cost of the personal portion How does that work, given that the cost of the personal portion isn't independent of the rest of the booking? I was just looking at a flight plan on kiwi.com that they could book for $900, with the individual legs costing $250, $350, and $500 if booked through the carriers.
      - skissane 2y ago
        They price two itineraries - one with the work part only, the other with both work and personal. They book the combined itinerary and then you reimburse them the differnce
        RexM 2y ago
        Yep, I’ve done something similar. Flew to a conference for work, then had them fly me to my vacation destination instead of home. I basically ended up getting a free one-way flight for vacation.
      - Pinus 2y ago
        I’m not familiar with Kiwi, but I noticed a comment thread about them on travel.stackexchange.com recently, discussing whether to describe them as “fraud” or just “using booking practices that subject the client to extreme risks”. Be sure to read the fine print on that booking!
rchowe 2y ago
Generally in order to ticket an itinerary, there needs to be at least one flight marketed (e.g. with the airline's flight number) by the "plating carrier" whose ticket stock the flights are issued on. I can't buy an itinerary consisting of just BA238 on aa.com but I can buy AA6981 which is its codeshare. I can also buy an itinerary where I fly AA on BOS-JFK and connect to BA JFK-LHR, because there's at least one AA-marketed flight on the ticket. The marketing carrier also can affect how the operating carrier gets paid -- codeshares can have different inventory which allows airlines that are partners but not super close to hold back inventory for themselves.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  Aha! That's a very interesting detail!
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  > I can also buy an itinerary where I fly AA on BOS-JFK and connect to BA JFK-LHR, because there's at least one AA-marketed flight on the ticket. Dunno if that’s a requirement that AA has, but I’ve totally bought 100% Air France metal tickets that don’t even touch US soil on Delta because Delta sold the same itinerary for way less.
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    You bought them on their DL#### codeshare flight number (what [AA or DL]-marketed means in GP's comment). I fly a lot of "Delta" flights that are entirely KLM or Republic metal, often buying the Republic flights with Delta points earned on the KLM flights. (NB: the Republic airplanes say “Delta” on the side, while the KLM ones say KLM.)
mppm 2y ago
> Why not just get rid of them and book on the original flight number? That couldn't possibly work, as it will make it more difficult for airlines to play their bullshit games with inventories, differential pricing, status and bonus miles.
rswail 2y ago
Recently, I flew with gf on Etihad from MEL to CDG, via Abu Dhabi. We weren't allowed into the Etihad lounge in Abu Dhabi because even though our flight from there to CDG was an Etihad code, it was codeshare with Air France. Believe me when I say I was pissed and made sure everybody knew, including the travel agent that booked us that deals with high end corporate travellers. Etihad lost a bunch of business from AU because of that.
- Tor3 2y ago
  That's some particular Etihad setup then? When I travel there's often codeshare involved, but as long as the ticket (and the boarding pass shows this) is from the airline I booked with, then I get lounge access (if my ticket allows it) and everything else if there's anything. Doesn't matter if the actual flight is with some other company.
- JCharante 2y ago
  It sounds like the travel agent’s fault for not booking the flight properly. Delta Skyclubs have the marketed and operated by rule, meaning that if you buy and get the ticket issued by Air France then you would have a flight marketed by Air France but Operated by Delta. Of course if this was on a business class ticket you’d have access to any SkyTeam lounges anyways. Basically your travel agent is incompetent

stephen_g 2y ago

Generally it's easier to book a trip with legs on different carriers if they have a codeshare arrangement, because you can just do it as a single itinerary through one carrier's web site. Otherwise you often need a travel agent to be able to put together the itinerary (that's not strictly necessary though, just the way they make it work so no technical reason they couldn't just offer non codeshare flight numbers) The other thing is airline points/status - sometimes you get no status points/miles on non-codeshare partner flight numbers but you do on the codeshare flight numbers.

kalleboo 2y ago
I guess my question is, is it easier to upgrade the carrier website flight booking engines and mileage programs to deal with the original carrier flight numbers rather than upgrading all of the systems across the industry to deal with a larger name space for flight numbers universally?
bruce511 2y ago
Also, connections. If it's a connecting flight, and the incoming flight is running late, then the airline "sorts you out". Basically they know sboit your connection and make a plan. I've been on a plane out of Heathrow that waited for a 30-min late incoming flight. I've also been on a late flight where my connection has been rebooked for me because we arrived late. If you book "2 tickets" you're basically a no-show to the first flight, and you're on your own dealing with that airline.
- skissane 2y ago
  I did that once - book connecting flights on two different tickets - and although I ended up actually making the connection (despite the first flight running 2-3 hours late), the experience was so nerve-racking I swore I’d never do that again. It helped that the flight I was connecting to ended up running late too. The reason I did it was it was a personal side-trip (to see family) on an international work trip, and although my employer would let me mix work and personal travel on their booking (provided I reimbursed them for the cost of the personal portion), the bureaucracy involved had put me off going down that path.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    > provided I reimbursed them for the cost of the personal portion How does that work, given that the cost of the personal portion isn't independent of the rest of the booking? I was just looking at a flight plan on kiwi.com that they could book for $900, with the individual legs costing $250, $350, and $500 if booked through the carriers.
    - skissane 2y ago
      They price two itineraries - one with the work part only, the other with both work and personal. They book the combined itinerary and then you reimburse them the differnce
      - RexM 2y ago
        Yep, I’ve done something similar. Flew to a conference for work, then had them fly me to my vacation destination instead of home. I basically ended up getting a free one-way flight for vacation.
    - Pinus 2y ago
      I’m not familiar with Kiwi, but I noticed a comment thread about them on travel.stackexchange.com recently, discussing whether to describe them as “fraud” or just “using booking practices that subject the client to extreme risks”. Be sure to read the fine print on that booking!

rchowe 2y ago

Generally in order to ticket an itinerary, there needs to be at least one flight marketed (e.g. with the airline's flight number) by the "plating carrier" whose ticket stock the flights are issued on. I can't buy an itinerary consisting of just BA238 on aa.com but I can buy AA6981 which is its codeshare. I can also buy an itinerary where I fly AA on BOS-JFK and connect to BA JFK-LHR, because there's at least one AA-marketed flight on the ticket. The marketing carrier also can affect how the operating carrier gets paid -- codeshares can have different inventory which allows airlines that are partners but not super close to hold back inventory for themselves.

kalleboo 2y ago
Aha! That's a very interesting detail!
Scoundreller 2y ago
> I can also buy an itinerary where I fly AA on BOS-JFK and connect to BA JFK-LHR, because there's at least one AA-marketed flight on the ticket. Dunno if that’s a requirement that AA has, but I’ve totally bought 100% Air France metal tickets that don’t even touch US soil on Delta because Delta sold the same itinerary for way less.
- sokoloff 2y ago
  You bought them on their DL#### codeshare flight number (what [AA or DL]-marketed means in GP's comment). I fly a lot of "Delta" flights that are entirely KLM or Republic metal, often buying the Republic flights with Delta points earned on the KLM flights. (NB: the Republic airplanes say “Delta” on the side, while the KLM ones say KLM.)

mppm 2y ago

> Why not just get rid of them and book on the original flight number? That couldn't possibly work, as it will make it more difficult for airlines to play their bullshit games with inventories, differential pricing, status and bonus miles.

rswail 2y ago

Recently, I flew with gf on Etihad from MEL to CDG, via Abu Dhabi. We weren't allowed into the Etihad lounge in Abu Dhabi because even though our flight from there to CDG was an Etihad code, it was codeshare with Air France. Believe me when I say I was pissed and made sure everybody knew, including the travel agent that booked us that deals with high end corporate travellers. Etihad lost a bunch of business from AU because of that.

Tor3 2y ago
That's some particular Etihad setup then? When I travel there's often codeshare involved, but as long as the ticket (and the boarding pass shows this) is from the airline I booked with, then I get lounge access (if my ticket allows it) and everything else if there's anything. Doesn't matter if the actual flight is with some other company.
JCharante 2y ago
It sounds like the travel agent’s fault for not booking the flight properly. Delta Skyclubs have the marketed and operated by rule, meaning that if you buy and get the ticket issued by Air France then you would have a flight marketed by Air France but Operated by Delta. Of course if this was on a business class ticket you’d have access to any SkyTeam lounges anyways. Basically your travel agent is incompetent