4 ms·
He was also racist, misogynistic, and reactionary. Even his contemporaries found it too much. There are few sources in English but here is a French one https://
by g15jv2dp 2y ago
He was also racist, misogynistic, and reactionary. Even his contemporaries found it too much. There are few sources in English but here is a French one https://www.france24.com/fr/sports/20240713-jeux-olympiques-misogyne-raciste-colonialiste-qui-%C3%A9tait-vraiment-pierre-de-coubertin https://www.france24.com/fr/sports/20240713-jeux-olympiques-... A little quote from the article:
> Dès les premiers jours, j'étais un colonialiste fanatique… Les races sont de valeur différente, et à la race blanche, d’essence supérieure, toutes les autres doivent faire allégeance.
> From the very first days I was a fanatical colonialist… Races are of different value, and to the white race, of superior essence, all others must swear allegiance.
> Le véritable héros olympique est, à mes yeux, l’adulte mâle individuel. Je n’approuve pas personnellement la participation des femmes à des concours publics
> The real Olympic hero, in my eyes, is the individual adult male. I personally do not approve of women participating in public competitions.
- imoverclocked 2y agoThat’s good to know but maybe immaterial to the point of the article; The part of the Olympics that remains is not of those views.
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoWell, perfection and peace aren't part of what remains, either. And it does give some context to what he might mean by "perfection" and "peace".
- lo_zamoyski 2y ago[flagged]
- talldayo 2y agoIt's almost like it wasn't depicting the Last Supper because that has zero relevance to the Olympic ceremonies or culture.
- lo_zamoyski 2y agoExcept they were, and they admitted to doing it and issued a fake apology for it.
- talldayo 2y agoWhere is Dionysus in Last Supper? Or is there some other blue-painted disciple I missed in the painting?
- big-green-man 2y agoYup, his idea of perfection is most certainly imperfect by our standards, why even try to dress it up? Are we going to extol the virtues of Margaret Sanger and John Money next?
- g15jv2dp 2y agoThe guy praised eugenics [1] and admired Hitler [2]. You think that's not relevant to an article about how the Olympics are a "religion of perfection"? What kind of perfection do you think that was, exactly? [1] Pierre de Coubertin, "L'Éducation anglaise," In: J.-M. Brohm, Pierre de Coubertin, le seigneur des anneaux, Homnisphères, 2008. [2] Daniel Bermond, Pierre de Coubertin, Paris, Éditions Perrin, 2008, 429 p. (ISBN 978-2-262-02349-2)
- crop_rotation 2y agoTrying to apply current moral standards to historical people will leave you finding nothing but demons in history. If people have to be perfect for their creations to not be discarded, then almost all modern institutions which have survived for long time will be in danger.
- g15jv2dp 2y agoWho's advocating for discarding the olympics? All I'm saying is that we shouldn't glorify this guy.
- imoverclocked 2y agoI’m not sure the article does glorify him. It does call out some shortcomings of his vision and even implementation of the games over the years. The entire point is to get better and move beyond where we are now (and where we were then.) The fact that we can decry his views is a testament that much of humanity has largely moved on from them.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sofixa 2y agoAbhorrent as those views are, in the context of his time they were more or less the accepted normal. Back then, women couldn't vote in France or most other countries he had visited/used for inspiration. On the contrary, feminists, rare as they were, were mocked. Racism was prevalent, colonialism rampant. He was born 30 years before Hitler, and we all know his views and how popular they were among large parts of Europe and even elsewhere. That doesn't excuse his views, but it contextualises them.
- ein0p 2y agoBelgium showed black people in a zoo until the 60s, and women did not have voting rights in “enlightened” Switzerland until 1971. Holier than thou attitudes in Europe are a product of fairly recent brainwashing.
- sofixa 2y agoNonsense, British and French colonialism explicitly had "bringing civilisation to the savages" aspects to it.
- orwin 2y agoThis is a take I agreed with, then I read about it, and behold, it isn't really true. While among the aristocrats and/or oligarchs, it was certainly the majority opinion (engenism, racism and pro-colonialism to clarify), it wasn't among the population. A lot of people fought against colonialism, in the first place religious people. And a majority didn't care.
- sofixa 2y ago> And a majority didn't care. It's a bit hard to gauge the opinion of the masses, but jingoism was prevalent and a popular political stance to have, so I doubt the majority didn't care. In any case, I didn't say those views were universal - just that they were normal and acceptable to have.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago[flagged]
- yieldcrv 2y agoBoth articles are about an obsession with peak human performance, 150 years later women do not excel in this regard and are not represented in the records, only in their own category, an adjective, nothing has fundamentally changed except categorization to accommodate. People appreciate it and the discipline involved, the context of “Olympic hero” based on what it aimed to showcase is still relevant today by that standard. That observation in and of itself is not misogyny.
- bobthepanda 2y agoThe shooting competition got split into gendered competitions after the first woman won in 1992; women were then banned from competing in the formerly mixed event until 2000 when a separate women’s event was organized. https://olympics.com/en/news/zhang-shan-the-only-female-shooter-to-win-gold-in-a-mixed-competition https://olympics.com/en/news/zhang-shan-the-only-female-shoo...
- yieldcrv 2y agoway to go Zhang Shan, that seems tangentially relevant to the statement. Its own independent issue about the subsequent split, not changing anything about my statement in a scatterplot of all absolute records, and nothing to do with whether a statement in 1869 was misogyny.
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoDo you know who wins all the marathons? People in wheelchairs. It's not even close. They have to put them in a different category from the, um, able-bodied people, so that the able-bodied can also win.
- lo_zamoyski 2y ago[flagged]
- JeraldFut 2y ago[dead]
- 29athrowaway 2y agoAnd in 100 years people will criticize you as well. What your generation did to the environment, biodiversity, the climate, will be offensive to them. Maybe you said something in favor or against AI and that then backfires. Because if AI is used to dominate humanity tech people who made it possible will be the most hated. Or who knows, maybe you ate an animal or used too many kWh in your house.
- pessimizer 2y agoThis is only a dozen years or so away from being a defense of Hitler. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, I guess?
- JeraldFut 2y ago[dead]
- big-green-man 2y agoIt's pure hubris to assume you know what the concerns and cultural fads will be important to people of the future. You don't know what they'll care about any more than I do.
- CoastalCoder 2y agoI wonder if you misread the parent comment? It sounds like you're in total agreement.
- g15jv2dp 2y agoSo the eugenist should get a pass because I myself may be criticized in the future? That's bonkers. Two wrongs don't make a right.
- 29athrowaway 2y agoI didn't say that, you did.
- TacticalCoder 2y ago[flagged]
- cidsknw 2y ago> > The real Olympic hero, in my eyes, is the individual adult male. I personally do not approve of women participating in public competitions. The modern Olympics organizers have taken this sentiment and updated it with a twist: women can participate but they may be forced to compete against any adult male who claims to be female. Just as in de Coubertin's day, males are prioritized while women are demeaned.