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I respect and like Intel, but even with my biases I am nonetheless mildly annoyed as a tax payer that we paid so much into CHIPS to still end up losing the sili

I respect and like Intel, but even with my biases I am nonetheless mildly annoyed as a tax payer that we paid so much into CHIPS to still end up losing the silicon wars to Taiwan/China. I want my tax dollars back.

melling 2y ago
We gave them the money this year. They are building fabs. This stuff takes years. One fab can cost $20 billion.
- westurner 2y ago
  This past year, they were expected to piss the money we gave them away on a factory in high-risk genocideland but not in the USA. How could they have prevented those expenses? They've finally introduced lower power gaming chips. Hopefully they build fabs here, and we alleviate the supply chain blockade and competitive obstruction by fabricating chips out of graphene and other forms of carbon.
talldayo 2y ago
> we paid so much into CHIPS to still end up losing the silicon wars to Taiwan/China. Did you earnestly expect any other outcome? TSMC has the customers, the trained personnel, the connections with ASML and the supply chain worked out. Unless the US airlifted TSMC to American soil, there's no reality where we open a factory and a year later it becomes the best in the world. It's pretty obvious that this investment is a hedged bet in geopolitical tensions going sideways, and being able to recover when it does.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >Did you earnestly expect any other outcome? Nope. We already lost the war years ago before it even began, no amount of throwing money at this war was going to snatch victory from the bowels of defeat. CHIPS was a stupid waste of money at the outset and it is still a stupid waste of money after the fact because it arrived too late. But that doesn't change my sentiment as a tax payer that I want my tax dollars back. Even moreso because Intel is now gutting their R&D when their problem is they are behind in R&D.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    Well, I wish you and your fellow taxpayers luck finding a better-suited American chip foundry to invest in.
    - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
      If the only American one is horrible, we should still subsidize it? Quite the dilemma. I'd be more on board with paying the Taiwanese to move here.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        Taiwan isn't going to pack themselves up until it's already too late. Politically and economically they wouldn't agree to leave unless their sovereignty was threatened by China, at which point their fabs and equipment are probably in the process of being destroyed. There is no reality in which you just pay Taiwanese people to move to America any more than you'd pay Americans to move to Taiwan. The only playbook is to defend Taiwan like they're the last hope for the American economy. Obviously investing in Intel won't go anywhere even in the best-case scenario, so the only logical option is to defend Taiwan and the status-quo.

melling 2y ago

We gave them the money this year. They are building fabs. This stuff takes years. One fab can cost $20 billion.

westurner 2y ago
This past year, they were expected to piss the money we gave them away on a factory in high-risk genocideland but not in the USA. How could they have prevented those expenses? They've finally introduced lower power gaming chips. Hopefully they build fabs here, and we alleviate the supply chain blockade and competitive obstruction by fabricating chips out of graphene and other forms of carbon.

talldayo 2y ago

> we paid so much into CHIPS to still end up losing the silicon wars to Taiwan/China. Did you earnestly expect any other outcome? TSMC has the customers, the trained personnel, the connections with ASML and the supply chain worked out. Unless the US airlifted TSMC to American soil, there's no reality where we open a factory and a year later it becomes the best in the world. It's pretty obvious that this investment is a hedged bet in geopolitical tensions going sideways, and being able to recover when it does.

Dalewyn 2y ago
>Did you earnestly expect any other outcome? Nope. We already lost the war years ago before it even began, no amount of throwing money at this war was going to snatch victory from the bowels of defeat. CHIPS was a stupid waste of money at the outset and it is still a stupid waste of money after the fact because it arrived too late. But that doesn't change my sentiment as a tax payer that I want my tax dollars back. Even moreso because Intel is now gutting their R&D when their problem is they are behind in R&D.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Well, I wish you and your fellow taxpayers luck finding a better-suited American chip foundry to invest in.
  - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
    If the only American one is horrible, we should still subsidize it? Quite the dilemma. I'd be more on board with paying the Taiwanese to move here.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      Taiwan isn't going to pack themselves up until it's already too late. Politically and economically they wouldn't agree to leave unless their sovereignty was threatened by China, at which point their fabs and equipment are probably in the process of being destroyed. There is no reality in which you just pay Taiwanese people to move to America any more than you'd pay Americans to move to Taiwan. The only playbook is to defend Taiwan like they're the last hope for the American economy. Obviously investing in Intel won't go anywhere even in the best-case scenario, so the only logical option is to defend Taiwan and the status-quo.