5 ms·

> Again, there’s nothing “visual” about the way this works. My mind just prefers spatial thinking over visual thinking. It's hard to imagine (for us visual thi

> Again, there’s nothing “visual” about the way this works. My mind just prefers spatial thinking over visual thinking. It's hard to imagine (for us visual thinkers) how one could think spacially without also visualizing.

givinguflac 2y ago
The best description I’ve come across (as someone with aphantasia myself, which I discovered after reading this article yesterday) is that it’s like describing the metadata and emotional sensations associated with an image in my mind. I really thought people talked about “seeing with the minds eye” as a metaphor, until yesterday.
taberiand 2y ago
I suppose it's all fundamentally just electrical and chemical impulses - presumably for most people those pulses pass through the visualisation part of the brain, and for others it takes another path - yet the end result of the processing is more or less the same, just mapped onto maybe smells or feelings or something instead of images
jumploops 2y ago
Yes, it’s hard to describe with words. The spatial thinking is relational in concept, such that I can think about distances and angles in relationship to one another. I can describe (and build), with my hands, but I can’t “see” the object from a certain angle. It’s as if there’s a bunch of points in virtual space, again not visualized, but accessible to my thinking process. I can imagine how they relate, and how they can fit together, without actually seeing it rendered. Not sure if that makes sense or I’m just muddying the waters. Another example would be Legos, which I played with a ton as a kid. I can think about the exact piece I need, and think about the larger thing I’m building as a composite of said pieces. I keep mentioning my hands, because the way it’s expressed in my mind is more of a “feeling” than anything visual. Another way to think about it would be like a 3d model of the world, where I can think about my route/position/etc. through it, without having any concrete view. It’s like a 3d file without the 2d renderer.
- SeriousM 2y ago
  The article made me thinking if my way of "visualizing" things is limited. My kids do have a vivid imagination for visual things out of nowhere, I on the other hand need a spark or idea to get the flow going. > Another way to think about it would be like a 3d model of the world, where I can think about my route/position/etc. through it, without having any concrete view. It’s like a 3d file without the 2d renderer. That example just fits perfectly my perception of things. I habe a very good mental model of everything that fits well in my brain but it's sometimes hard to put them into words... yet I get better by describing "my view". Funny that I have a graphical memory but can't construct any new in my mind.
- jsrcout 2y ago
  This is so interesting. As a test, I wonder if you could make something out of Legos without any issues if you blocked your vision so you couldn't see them or your hands. Guessing that that you could.
- Izkata 2y ago
  > It’s as if there’s a bunch of points in virtual space, again not visualized, but accessible to my thinking process. I can imagine how they relate, and how they can fit together, without actually seeing it rendered. Not sure if that makes sense or I’m just muddying the waters. Would it be accurate to call it a wireframe? https://boingboing.net/2023/07/05/this-wireframe-car-looks-like-a-digital-model-but-its-real-and-made-from-actual-wire.html https://boingboing.net/2023/07/05/this-wireframe-car-looks-l... If so, this isn't considered aphantasia, just a very weak visualization. A 4 on this scale rather than a 5: https://creativerevolution.io/aphantasia-a-blind-minds-eye/ https://creativerevolution.io/aphantasia-a-blind-minds-eye/
  - sb8244 2y ago
    I describe myself as similar to parent post. There is no wireframe. There's no visual component for me in any capacity. I have no ability to perceive a visualization of something. But I know what something would look like if I could see it. I know what an apple looks like. I can know that things are connected or related without seeing them. It is fairly easy for me to "conceptualize" a graph, but there's 0 visual component even if closing my eyes. I would love if I could wireframe visualize like that post you sent. That would be actually awesome, but I cannot.
anigbrowl 2y ago
Just close your eyes and rely on your hands for a bit.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  If you're saying to close my eyes and use my hands to manipulate some 3D shape, I'm going to be visualizing it while I do that.
toolslive 2y ago
it's like a lidar (I have aphantasia too)

givinguflac 2y ago

The best description I’ve come across (as someone with aphantasia myself, which I discovered after reading this article yesterday) is that it’s like describing the metadata and emotional sensations associated with an image in my mind. I really thought people talked about “seeing with the minds eye” as a metaphor, until yesterday.

taberiand 2y ago

I suppose it's all fundamentally just electrical and chemical impulses - presumably for most people those pulses pass through the visualisation part of the brain, and for others it takes another path - yet the end result of the processing is more or less the same, just mapped onto maybe smells or feelings or something instead of images

jumploops 2y ago

Yes, it’s hard to describe with words. The spatial thinking is relational in concept, such that I can think about distances and angles in relationship to one another. I can describe (and build), with my hands, but I can’t “see” the object from a certain angle. It’s as if there’s a bunch of points in virtual space, again not visualized, but accessible to my thinking process. I can imagine how they relate, and how they can fit together, without actually seeing it rendered. Not sure if that makes sense or I’m just muddying the waters. Another example would be Legos, which I played with a ton as a kid. I can think about the exact piece I need, and think about the larger thing I’m building as a composite of said pieces. I keep mentioning my hands, because the way it’s expressed in my mind is more of a “feeling” than anything visual. Another way to think about it would be like a 3d model of the world, where I can think about my route/position/etc. through it, without having any concrete view. It’s like a 3d file without the 2d renderer.

SeriousM 2y ago
The article made me thinking if my way of "visualizing" things is limited. My kids do have a vivid imagination for visual things out of nowhere, I on the other hand need a spark or idea to get the flow going. > Another way to think about it would be like a 3d model of the world, where I can think about my route/position/etc. through it, without having any concrete view. It’s like a 3d file without the 2d renderer. That example just fits perfectly my perception of things. I habe a very good mental model of everything that fits well in my brain but it's sometimes hard to put them into words... yet I get better by describing "my view". Funny that I have a graphical memory but can't construct any new in my mind.
jsrcout 2y ago
This is so interesting. As a test, I wonder if you could make something out of Legos without any issues if you blocked your vision so you couldn't see them or your hands. Guessing that that you could.
Izkata 2y ago
> It’s as if there’s a bunch of points in virtual space, again not visualized, but accessible to my thinking process. I can imagine how they relate, and how they can fit together, without actually seeing it rendered. Not sure if that makes sense or I’m just muddying the waters. Would it be accurate to call it a wireframe? https://boingboing.net/2023/07/05/this-wireframe-car-looks-like-a-digital-model-but-its-real-and-made-from-actual-wire.html https://boingboing.net/2023/07/05/this-wireframe-car-looks-l... If so, this isn't considered aphantasia, just a very weak visualization. A 4 on this scale rather than a 5: https://creativerevolution.io/aphantasia-a-blind-minds-eye/ https://creativerevolution.io/aphantasia-a-blind-minds-eye/
- sb8244 2y ago
  I describe myself as similar to parent post. There is no wireframe. There's no visual component for me in any capacity. I have no ability to perceive a visualization of something. But I know what something would look like if I could see it. I know what an apple looks like. I can know that things are connected or related without seeing them. It is fairly easy for me to "conceptualize" a graph, but there's 0 visual component even if closing my eyes. I would love if I could wireframe visualize like that post you sent. That would be actually awesome, but I cannot.

anigbrowl 2y ago

Just close your eyes and rely on your hands for a bit.

UncleOxidant 2y ago
If you're saying to close my eyes and use my hands to manipulate some 3D shape, I'm going to be visualizing it while I do that.

toolslive 2y ago

it's like a lidar (I have aphantasia too)