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More on this. The Carter Foundation, the only impartial observers who were in Venezuela for the election, and who previously defended Venezuela's election syste
by suzzer99 2y ago
More on this. The Carter Foundation, the only impartial observers who were in Venezuela for the election, and who previously defended Venezuela's election system following Chavez's 2004 win, has called on Maduro's government to release local vote tallies, which apparently it is never going to do: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/31/world/americas/venezuela-election-carter-center-democracy.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/31/world/americas/venezuela-...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- culi 2y ago[flagged]
- forgetfulness 2y agoMaduro is also saying that the mass protests he's facing are the product of Chilean-trained operatives acting against him, he says many things.
- pydry 2y ago[flagged]
- fsckboy 2y agojust because you are paranoid that everybody is out to get you doesn't mean that everybody doesn't have good reason and that you don't really deserve it
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kergonath 2y ago> Gee I wonder why he might be paranoid about foreign operatives trying to violently oust him Because he’s an unpopular dictator who knows fairly well for having seen it in the recent past that you can go very quickly from getting 99% of the vote in an election to dead in a ditch? In his position you’re either paranoid or dead. This does not make him a better person.
- culi 2y agoYou can have that personal belief, but independent analyses of past election results have upheld their validity. If he's a dictator, he's one that's earned the popular vote of Venezuela multiple times. Perhaps this time it's different
- nequo 2y ago> but independent analyses of past election results have upheld their validity What do you consider to be independent? I’m seeing a lot of the opposite here for 2018 for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election#International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_e...
- 1270018080 2y agoYeah I could see someone being paranoid from rigging several elections
- snypher 2y ago[flagged]
- a0123 2y ago[flagged]
- forgetfulness 2y agoChilean intelligence being the black hand behind the protestors rising up against a stolen election is pretty far fetched, South American countries haven't meddled to that level in one another since the XIX century, which was more of a diplomatic free for all in much of the world, so you also saw secret treaties, sponsored coups, puppet Governments, and all that. Maduro had promised to let international observers in, but began withdrawing the invitations a few months ahead of the elections, and the Carter Foundation was one of two to be allowed a restricted "technical" observation. The US would benefit from international observers these days, frankly, casting doubts over its electoral system has been used to ill effect to its political stability by bad actors.
- dkarl 2y agoI'd love to have election observers here, but it would be political suicide for any politician to suggest it. Most Americans detest the idea that any influence from outside could improve anything here.
- ptero 2y agoI don't have this feeling. As a single data point, the vast majority of my friends, both democratic and republican, are concerned about the other party pulling some tricks and would welcome as much independent transparency as possible; international observers and anything else. My 2c.
- dkarl 2y agoFor my data point, the Republicans I know who are concerned about election meddling would consider virtually any foreign country, or the entire international community at large, to be potential conspirators against us. Russia gets a pass as long as Trump vouches for them, but he could turn that on a dime if he wanted.
- lawlessone 2y ago>Maduro has already vowed to release election data... Yeah and everyone's still waiting on D's tax returns. Promises have to be kept.
- culi 2y agoOkay. I don't have an opinion. I just think GP's specific wording was misleading > which apparently it is never going to do
- knodi123 2y agoYeah, and Trump promised to release his tax returns. Around here, our sewage trucks have the word "Political Promises" painted on the side.
- DonnyV 2y ago[flagged]
- culi 2y agoI can't find much about the Carter Foundation, but Edison Polling—the organization that released the exit poll that showed the opposition winning— does have a long history of criticism for being US-backed and consistently producing results that favor US interests. Meanwhile, the most respected pollster in the country, Hinterlaces, released an exit poll that estimated right around the actual results (54% vs 51%) https://x.com/Hinterlaces/status/1817599369471799639 https://x.com/Hinterlaces/status/1817599369471799639 In addition, there are plenty of other international observers that back the result. Like the National Lawyers Guild https://nlginternational.org/2024/07/press-release-national-lawyers-guild-electoral-observers-praise-fairness-transparency-of-venezuelan-election-process-condemn-the-u-s-backed-oppositions-refusal-to-accept-the-outcome-of-de/ https://nlginternational.org/2024/07/press-release-national-...
- rcardo11 2y agoMaduro just responded to a journalist from the Washington Post that they will not be able to show the local vote tallies now because, at this moment, the National Electoral Council is in “a cyber battle never seen before.”
- berdario 2y agoI was curious to check the National Electoral Council website, to get their latest tally straight from the source... http://www.cne.gov.ve/ http://www.cne.gov.ve/ And the website is currently not loading. They might simply be struggling to keep up with traffic, but being under some kind of "cyber attack" is also plausible
- ARandomerDude 2y agoThis would also be fairly trivial to fake if you wanted to appear to be under attack.
- bilbo0s 2y agoNot to put too fine a point on it, but you wouldn't have to fake anything if you just didn't use electronic voting. Simply give a ballot to every voter and have them fill it out. Especially nowadays, as pretty much every election in every nation will come under cyber attack precisely because they are using electronic voting and hackers can manipulate the votes. If I were being ungenerous, I would say all the politicians want electronic voting everywhere because they can manipulate it with cyber attacks.
- burnished 2y agoThe ungenerous take does not seem like a natural choice, its choosing to make yourself a little fish in a big pond, unless I'm missing something that makes it more appealing than traditional 'imaginative' means of gaining political power?
- glenstein 2y ago
- culi 2y ago[flagged]
- tptacek 2y agoI'm not sure I understand this battle-of-experts thing happening here. The Venezuelan authorities released the vote totals. They work out to exactly 51.2% vs 44.2%. That did not happen in the real world. Could not have. We don't need the Carter Foundation to tell us these results are false. They are manifestly false.
- roenxi 2y agoThat isn't the vote total, it is a provisional count. They're claiming "80% reported" which is already a tell that whoever is putting out the figures isn't treating them especially accurately. It is plausible that the figures are incompetence rather than malice and someone was back-calculating the number of votes from an accurate-enough percentage. Pretty unlikely though. It isn't that hard to count votes.
- tptacek 2y agoSure, but the 80% cutoff on the stat doesn't change anything here. The only way to report out these numbers is to start with the two percentages and work back to them, which would make them false! I don't think there's a way to rescue these stats. Certainly I don't think the Carter Foundation or the International NLG has anything useful to say about them.
- culi 2y agoThe Carter Center doesn't allege made up numbers. They alleged short voter registration deadlines, few places to register, minimal public information about voting, excessive legal requirements for citizens abroad. As well as inequality in the resources each candidate had access to: > The electoral campaign was impacted by unequal conditions among candidates. The campaign of the incumbent president was well funded and widely visible through rallies, posters, murals, and street campaigning. The abuse of administrative resources on behalf of the incumbent — including use of government vehicles, public officials campaigning while in their official capacity, and use of social programs — was observed throughout the campaign. https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/2024/venezuela-073024.html https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/2024/venezuela-073024.h...
- cmg 2y ago[flagged]
- ra 2y agoIs anyone really impartial?
- chrisjharris 2y agoHow should they be funded, for you to consider them impartial?
- Shin-- 2y agoNot by a country directly opposed to Venezula's government would be a good start.
- tptacek 2y agoThe issue in this post has nothing to do with any of the outside election observers. You could replace the Carter Foundation with the CIA itself and you'd still be left with the same problem, which is that these vote counts are fictitious.
- cmg 2y agoThe comment I’m replying to says they’re “the only impartial observers who were in Venezuela for the election,” so I think the point stands - given their funding and connection to the US government and international capital, they can’t be considered impartial in this situation.
- lazide 2y agoWho would you propose as impartial?
- pvg 2y agoIt might have been overstated but it's pretty tangential to the discussion. You can just imagine the poster made a typo, if that helps, and move on - the results look fishy and people have asked for the data. We don't really need to reconstruct the origin story of every asker.
- corpMaverick 2y agoExactly. You don't need advanced math. You only need to see the tallies for every voting center and make sum. I believe the opposition has already done this. The fact that the government has not done it shows that they just don't have the numbers.