6 ms·

My untrained eye has noticed. But I also think it's not really a big deal. There are so few events where the conditions are exactly the same every 4 years. Just

My untrained eye has noticed. But I also think it's not really a big deal. There are so few events where the conditions are exactly the same every 4 years. Just kinda the luck of the draw if you happen to be competing in the most ideal conditions for WR setting in any event

kergonath 2y ago
Also, the important bit is fairness for all competitors. As the OP said, the same conditions affect everybody. I have little sympathy for the (few) swimmers complaining. They are not owed a world record and if they’re that good, they’re going to get one anyway.
- teractiveodular 2y ago
  Wouldn't the sides affect swimmers on the edge lanes next to them more? And is this one reason why the strongest swimmers are usually placed in the center lanes?
  - killingtime74 2y ago
    From the races I saw they specifically had the edge lanes (left most, right most) empty probably for this reason. I.e. 8 out of 10 lanes are used. I think one of them did have someone in one of those lanes because one of the qualifying heats was a dead heat.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    Correct.
  - jseutter 2y ago
    Swimmers on edge lanes get affected more, and they leave the outside lanes unoccupied except for the first stage of qualifying.
  - aqfamnzc 2y ago
    Given the other comments I must be missing something, but wouldn't it be pretty much fair? The end swimmer gets one real neighbor and one simulated (reflection) neighbor from the wall. The middle folks have two real neighbors creating chop.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
trhway 2y ago
> But I also think it's not really a big deal. the difference of the resulting turbulence from the wave bounced back from the bottom surface at 2m here and from the more traditional 3m is a big deal. The water is pushed by the swimmer's hands with the speed of something on the scale of 2 meters per second, so, as the swimmer moves forward, that turbulent movement of the water reflected by the pool bottom may as well come behind the legs in the 3m depth case while in the 2m depth case it would catch the legs decreasing the efficiency of their movement.
- myworkinisgood 2y ago
  It's not a big deal in terms of competition as long as all players are affected equally. People are just being whiny.
LargeWu 2y ago
Additionally, anybody good enough to be prevented from setting a world record because of this pool will undoubtedly have multiple chances in other competitions with faster pools.
- nl 2y ago
  This isn't really the case. You need a fast pool and good competition. The Titmus vs Sanders vs Ledecky 400m could have been a world record race in another pool, but there's a pretty good chance we'll never see the three of them race each other again.
  - Rastonbury 2y ago
    Wouldn't any of these people not try for a WR in other comps without strong competitors? WR seems more prestigious than just a win and going for it and getting it means you win that race too
  - LargeWu 2y ago
    Counterpoint: Ledecky has never had anybody even close to her level in the 1500 and she has broken her own WR half a dozen times. I think good competition can help, but that effect is likely far less than pool conditions.
    - nl 2y ago
      Yes, this is absolutely true. In Ledecky's case the clock is the only competition, and she's just so much better than anyone else it's currently impossible for someone to race her. In Athletics at non-Championship meets they have pacemakers who provide a pace for the eventual winners to chase when they are going for fast times. It'd be interesting to see what Ledecky could do if she swam (for example) with male pacemakers as competition. Or maybe Summer Sanders will move up to the 1500m and we'll see a real race before Ledecky retires.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> There are so few events where the conditions are exactly the same every 4 years. The Olympics used to be held at Olympia. It's not difficult to make the conditions the same every four years.
- lordnacho 2y ago
  On that note, I should mention the idea of having a permanent Olympic city. Perhaps a new one. That way, there's no circus that goes around at great expense each time, and the Olympic city becomes a centre for sports science during the interim. Perhaps have separate summer and winter cities. Only drawback is the ioc doesn't get to choose a city every four years.
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    > Only drawback is the ioc doesn't get to choose a city every four years. That’s a massive drawback which is probably insurmountable. They to love kickback.
    - mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
      Imagine the bribes they would get when choosing the permanent city though!
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    The circus is the point of the Olympic. If there is no big event happening somewhere, the Olympic have no point. There are already permanent venues and international competitions happening for each of the sports of the Olympic.

kergonath 2y ago

Also, the important bit is fairness for all competitors. As the OP said, the same conditions affect everybody. I have little sympathy for the (few) swimmers complaining. They are not owed a world record and if they’re that good, they’re going to get one anyway.

teractiveodular 2y ago
Wouldn't the sides affect swimmers on the edge lanes next to them more? And is this one reason why the strongest swimmers are usually placed in the center lanes?
- killingtime74 2y ago
  From the races I saw they specifically had the edge lanes (left most, right most) empty probably for this reason. I.e. 8 out of 10 lanes are used. I think one of them did have someone in one of those lanes because one of the qualifying heats was a dead heat.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Correct.
- jseutter 2y ago
  Swimmers on edge lanes get affected more, and they leave the outside lanes unoccupied except for the first stage of qualifying.
- aqfamnzc 2y ago
  Given the other comments I must be missing something, but wouldn't it be pretty much fair? The end swimmer gets one real neighbor and one simulated (reflection) neighbor from the wall. The middle folks have two real neighbors creating chop.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

trhway 2y ago

> But I also think it's not really a big deal. the difference of the resulting turbulence from the wave bounced back from the bottom surface at 2m here and from the more traditional 3m is a big deal. The water is pushed by the swimmer's hands with the speed of something on the scale of 2 meters per second, so, as the swimmer moves forward, that turbulent movement of the water reflected by the pool bottom may as well come behind the legs in the 3m depth case while in the 2m depth case it would catch the legs decreasing the efficiency of their movement.

myworkinisgood 2y ago
It's not a big deal in terms of competition as long as all players are affected equally. People are just being whiny.

LargeWu 2y ago

Additionally, anybody good enough to be prevented from setting a world record because of this pool will undoubtedly have multiple chances in other competitions with faster pools.

nl 2y ago
This isn't really the case. You need a fast pool and good competition. The Titmus vs Sanders vs Ledecky 400m could have been a world record race in another pool, but there's a pretty good chance we'll never see the three of them race each other again.
- Rastonbury 2y ago
  Wouldn't any of these people not try for a WR in other comps without strong competitors? WR seems more prestigious than just a win and going for it and getting it means you win that race too
- LargeWu 2y ago
  Counterpoint: Ledecky has never had anybody even close to her level in the 1500 and she has broken her own WR half a dozen times. I think good competition can help, but that effect is likely far less than pool conditions.
  - nl 2y ago
    Yes, this is absolutely true. In Ledecky's case the clock is the only competition, and she's just so much better than anyone else it's currently impossible for someone to race her. In Athletics at non-Championship meets they have pacemakers who provide a pace for the eventual winners to chase when they are going for fast times. It'd be interesting to see what Ledecky could do if she swam (for example) with male pacemakers as competition. Or maybe Summer Sanders will move up to the 1500m and we'll see a real race before Ledecky retires.

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> There are so few events where the conditions are exactly the same every 4 years. The Olympics used to be held at Olympia. It's not difficult to make the conditions the same every four years.

lordnacho 2y ago
On that note, I should mention the idea of having a permanent Olympic city. Perhaps a new one. That way, there's no circus that goes around at great expense each time, and the Olympic city becomes a centre for sports science during the interim. Perhaps have separate summer and winter cities. Only drawback is the ioc doesn't get to choose a city every four years.
- lostlogin 2y ago
  > Only drawback is the ioc doesn't get to choose a city every four years. That’s a massive drawback which is probably insurmountable. They to love kickback.
  - mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
    Imagine the bribes they would get when choosing the permanent city though!
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  The circus is the point of the Olympic. If there is no big event happening somewhere, the Olympic have no point. There are already permanent venues and international competitions happening for each of the sports of the Olympic.