4 ms·

I realize commerical aviation is a bit of an exception but I'm not sure humans are compatible with not checking out with autopilot. Might be better to have the

I realize commerical aviation is a bit of an exception but I'm not sure humans are compatible with not checking out with autopilot. Might be better to have the autopilot as the copilot and not the other way around.

rsynnott 2y ago
In practice a certain amount of checking out on aircraft autopilot is arguably tolerable; the operator generally has _some_ time to react to something happening. Cars aren’t like that.
Grimblewald 2y ago
Aviation is an exception because everything has autopilot, and so it is MUCH easier to predict what others on the road are doing. If every car is self driving and can communicate, then things like random braking etc aren't an issue, cars can communicate stuff like this in advance.
- sfn42 2y ago
  Planes also have the advantage of not having to deal with pedestrians, bicyclists and other moving obstacles that will never be part of this hypothetical network.
- watwut 2y ago
  Airspace is basically empty compared to roads.
- nradov 2y ago
  There are always going to be objects on the road that aren't "self driving" and can't communicate. Like pedestrians and cyclists. Only a subset of aircraft have autopilots, and many autopilots have very limited functionality. You can't just set a destination airport and go to sleep. The pilot is actively flying the aircraft at all times, even if they're not directly actuating the flight controls.
- bcrl 2y ago
  Telsas can't even avoid hitting stopped emergency vehicles, so I'm not sure how communication between vehicles is going to solve their problems.
- aaomidi 2y ago
  Also aviation is…not easy to get into. There’s so much work and effort and two party control for all commercial flights.
Ekaros 2y ago
Marine traffic and aviation are very different environments from where cars operate. You do have lot more reaction time, lot less traffic and hazards are often static and visible long way away. And in scenarios where they are not, well I hope lot less blind trust is put in.
vdqtp3 2y ago
Commercial aviation is a little different in that on an IFR flight plan (which encompasses pretty much the whole time the autopilot is active), ATC is maintaining a 3 mile lateral bubble around the aircraft, making sure that there are no conflicts. So even though the pilot may not be as engaged in see-and-avoid behavior (which is the primary responsibility during VFR), there should be no risk of mid-air collision. Aviation practices are very much about ensuring that there are extra layers of protection that should all prevent an accident, that even if one fails the others continue to maintain safety. ATC, autopilot, pilot, TCAS, etc. Contrast this with automotive practices, which seem to be about achieving the minimum amount of safety possible.
squarefoot 2y ago
> I realize commerical aviation is a bit of an exception If flying in free air had the same number of variables as driving on oddly shaped roads filled with oddly shaped vehicles and obstacles and the occasional people crossing where they shouldn't, we'd have an air crash every hour. A flock of pigeons usually isn't fatal for an airplane engine, now imagine flying surrounded by people testing their new jet backpack. I'm 100% convinced we'll send someone to Mars a lot before we'll have safe self driving vehicles.

rsynnott 2y ago

In practice a certain amount of checking out on aircraft autopilot is arguably tolerable; the operator generally has _some_ time to react to something happening. Cars aren’t like that.

Grimblewald 2y ago

Aviation is an exception because everything has autopilot, and so it is MUCH easier to predict what others on the road are doing. If every car is self driving and can communicate, then things like random braking etc aren't an issue, cars can communicate stuff like this in advance.

sfn42 2y ago
Planes also have the advantage of not having to deal with pedestrians, bicyclists and other moving obstacles that will never be part of this hypothetical network.
watwut 2y ago
Airspace is basically empty compared to roads.
nradov 2y ago
There are always going to be objects on the road that aren't "self driving" and can't communicate. Like pedestrians and cyclists. Only a subset of aircraft have autopilots, and many autopilots have very limited functionality. You can't just set a destination airport and go to sleep. The pilot is actively flying the aircraft at all times, even if they're not directly actuating the flight controls.
bcrl 2y ago
Telsas can't even avoid hitting stopped emergency vehicles, so I'm not sure how communication between vehicles is going to solve their problems.
aaomidi 2y ago
Also aviation is…not easy to get into. There’s so much work and effort and two party control for all commercial flights.

Ekaros 2y ago

Marine traffic and aviation are very different environments from where cars operate. You do have lot more reaction time, lot less traffic and hazards are often static and visible long way away. And in scenarios where they are not, well I hope lot less blind trust is put in.

vdqtp3 2y ago

Commercial aviation is a little different in that on an IFR flight plan (which encompasses pretty much the whole time the autopilot is active), ATC is maintaining a 3 mile lateral bubble around the aircraft, making sure that there are no conflicts. So even though the pilot may not be as engaged in see-and-avoid behavior (which is the primary responsibility during VFR), there should be no risk of mid-air collision. Aviation practices are very much about ensuring that there are extra layers of protection that should all prevent an accident, that even if one fails the others continue to maintain safety. ATC, autopilot, pilot, TCAS, etc. Contrast this with automotive practices, which seem to be about achieving the minimum amount of safety possible.

squarefoot 2y ago

> I realize commerical aviation is a bit of an exception If flying in free air had the same number of variables as driving on oddly shaped roads filled with oddly shaped vehicles and obstacles and the occasional people crossing where they shouldn't, we'd have an air crash every hour. A flock of pigeons usually isn't fatal for an airplane engine, now imagine flying surrounded by people testing their new jet backpack. I'm 100% convinced we'll send someone to Mars a lot before we'll have safe self driving vehicles.