4 ms·

"My hunch is these start-ups don't want to show an empty hiring pipeline to investors. " Sounds very plausible, but why bother interviewing anyone?

scrame 2y ago
because funding wants to go somewhere and headcount is an easy earmark.
kevstev 2y ago
Intelligence on what other firms are doing, even if you are just getting a very high level view. Around 2009, I was working at an algo trading startup, and long story short, after having a previous company call me up after their non-compete in a business ended, and in the process one of them slipping in that they made like 4x what I was making at the time, I decided to look around. I got lots of bites on my resume! And I was called in for lots of interviews. But they didn't really go anywhere, despite me often feeling like I did well in them. It took me a few months to realize that they were actually just hearing some murmurs about what my company was doing and wanted to learn more about it- we were approaching the problem in a unique way for the time. Even seemingly innocuous details can give away a lot about a company's strategy. If you are working on say AR at Amazon, and you mention that your group is about 200 people, that says that they are not only going into this space, but doing a reasonably big push on it as well, which might be news to say FB. (This is completely contrived, I have no idea if Amazon is doing AR stuff at all).
- takinola 2y ago
  I guess anything is possible but this seems unlikely. The type of questions (and followups) you would ask in a job interview are quite different than for an inquiry. Also, there are more straightforward ways of getting this information so why take a more convoluted and less efficient path.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > type of questions (and followups) you would ask in a job interview are quite different than for an inquiry Candidates will willingly disclose quite a bit, especially if they were stiffed by the last lot.
- lallysingh 2y ago
  I think you can get more intel than this just by scouring LinkedIn. You might have to use some statistics to eyeball some numbers, but you can get technologies used, group sizes, levels of team members, etc. Especially if you snapshot and compare over time.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
    In fact, I would be shocked if this kind of competitor-employee data mining was not a service already sold by Linked In.
    - Spooky23 2y ago
      Competitive intelligence has been around for a long time.
joe_the_user 2y ago
The thing about "fake interviews", having gone to several myself, is that they are never completely fake, just very, very unlikely to produce a hire. I imagine the company internally can say something like "we'll hire if we find someone capable of solving all of department X,Y and Z's problems simultaneously and will do so for market rate. We probably won't find that but looking will make people happy." with the second part said with only winks.
- NickC25 2y ago
  Except if I'm an investor, and someone tells me that they are looking for a specific role that will help the company reach financial goals, they are spending time and money trying to find that person(s) and they aren't actually looking (rather, just posturing) that is fraud-y in a roundabout way. They are spending time and money on something that they know won't pan out. That's a waste of money.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    sadly, there can be a lot of inefficies and the number can still go up. That's ultimately all modern (western?) stakeholders care about these days. Not like they can't switch their stocks in days if they get worried.
  - joe_the_user 2y ago
    Except if I'm an investor, and someone tells me that they are looking for a specific role that will help the company reach financial goals, they are spending time and money trying to find that person(s) and they aren't actually looking (rather, just posturing) that is fraud-y in a roundabout way. Sure, if you're the investor that asks all those questions and has enough information to answer them, you won't be happy. But I think most investors aren't going to drill down to that level. Especially, anyone investing is going to know some money wasting has to happen, some posturing has to happen, just to be trendy and so attract "brilliant/energetic/etc" people as well as more investors. And a given start-up investor has to want more investors since the company runs on an accelerating flow of funds; your money is only being multiplied if other people are tossing in theirs and if your money isn't being multiplied, it's vanishing.
from-nibly 2y ago
Sometimes its double fraud. Sometimes they tell employees internally that they are hiring even though they arent.
svnt 2y ago
>Sounds very plausible, but why bother interviewing anyone? Because then you don’t have to ask anyone else to lie for you, or count on them to do it well. There are other options here though, beyond just lying and pickiness, which include: a) some internal party sabotaging hiring to prevent someone getting in who will be a better fit for the role they want during growth b) startups often don’t actually know where they need to put bodies, especially in areas outside of the founders’ technical training
throwawayq3423 2y ago
Every startup has a massive "Hiring" page for optics. Are they actually hiring for all those positions? Probably not.

scrame 2y ago

because funding wants to go somewhere and headcount is an easy earmark.

kevstev 2y ago

Intelligence on what other firms are doing, even if you are just getting a very high level view. Around 2009, I was working at an algo trading startup, and long story short, after having a previous company call me up after their non-compete in a business ended, and in the process one of them slipping in that they made like 4x what I was making at the time, I decided to look around. I got lots of bites on my resume! And I was called in for lots of interviews. But they didn't really go anywhere, despite me often feeling like I did well in them. It took me a few months to realize that they were actually just hearing some murmurs about what my company was doing and wanted to learn more about it- we were approaching the problem in a unique way for the time. Even seemingly innocuous details can give away a lot about a company's strategy. If you are working on say AR at Amazon, and you mention that your group is about 200 people, that says that they are not only going into this space, but doing a reasonably big push on it as well, which might be news to say FB. (This is completely contrived, I have no idea if Amazon is doing AR stuff at all).

takinola 2y ago
I guess anything is possible but this seems unlikely. The type of questions (and followups) you would ask in a job interview are quite different than for an inquiry. Also, there are more straightforward ways of getting this information so why take a more convoluted and less efficient path.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > type of questions (and followups) you would ask in a job interview are quite different than for an inquiry Candidates will willingly disclose quite a bit, especially if they were stiffed by the last lot.
lallysingh 2y ago
I think you can get more intel than this just by scouring LinkedIn. You might have to use some statistics to eyeball some numbers, but you can get technologies used, group sizes, levels of team members, etc. Especially if you snapshot and compare over time.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  In fact, I would be shocked if this kind of competitor-employee data mining was not a service already sold by Linked In.
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    Competitive intelligence has been around for a long time.

joe_the_user 2y ago

The thing about "fake interviews", having gone to several myself, is that they are never completely fake, just very, very unlikely to produce a hire. I imagine the company internally can say something like "we'll hire if we find someone capable of solving all of department X,Y and Z's problems simultaneously and will do so for market rate. We probably won't find that but looking will make people happy." with the second part said with only winks.

NickC25 2y ago
Except if I'm an investor, and someone tells me that they are looking for a specific role that will help the company reach financial goals, they are spending time and money trying to find that person(s) and they aren't actually looking (rather, just posturing) that is fraud-y in a roundabout way. They are spending time and money on something that they know won't pan out. That's a waste of money.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  sadly, there can be a lot of inefficies and the number can still go up. That's ultimately all modern (western?) stakeholders care about these days. Not like they can't switch their stocks in days if they get worried.
- joe_the_user 2y ago
  Except if I'm an investor, and someone tells me that they are looking for a specific role that will help the company reach financial goals, they are spending time and money trying to find that person(s) and they aren't actually looking (rather, just posturing) that is fraud-y in a roundabout way. Sure, if you're the investor that asks all those questions and has enough information to answer them, you won't be happy. But I think most investors aren't going to drill down to that level. Especially, anyone investing is going to know some money wasting has to happen, some posturing has to happen, just to be trendy and so attract "brilliant/energetic/etc" people as well as more investors. And a given start-up investor has to want more investors since the company runs on an accelerating flow of funds; your money is only being multiplied if other people are tossing in theirs and if your money isn't being multiplied, it's vanishing.

from-nibly 2y ago

Sometimes its double fraud. Sometimes they tell employees internally that they are hiring even though they arent.

svnt 2y ago

>Sounds very plausible, but why bother interviewing anyone? Because then you don’t have to ask anyone else to lie for you, or count on them to do it well. There are other options here though, beyond just lying and pickiness, which include: a) some internal party sabotaging hiring to prevent someone getting in who will be a better fit for the role they want during growth b) startups often don’t actually know where they need to put bodies, especially in areas outside of the founders’ technical training

throwawayq3423 2y ago

Every startup has a massive "Hiring" page for optics. Are they actually hiring for all those positions? Probably not.