7 ms·

How the electricity markets respond to a nuclear trip

113 points by kmax12 2y ago

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Something interesting is that with substantial solar and batteries being deployed in the ERCOT market (in scope grid operator for this piece), solar generation in excess of what the grid can consume with load combined with grid forming inverters (vs traditional grid following) can step in when called upon if a traditionally firmer generator (coal or nuclear) trips out. The potential is already there (photons hitting panels), simply turned down to align with grid demand (curtailment), but if the sun is shining and PV is called upon, curtailment can quickly turn into emergency grid support as long as the sun is shining (I am not familiar how long it takes from ISO signal to inverter command). It would be cool if individual generators shared this curtailment status/reserve in realtime publicly similar to how ERCOT reports real time generation mix data. Citations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40908526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40908526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38848989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38848989
- kccqzy 2y ago
  Most curtailment IIRC is due to insufficient transmission capacity. I doubt curtailed solar can be called upon in an emergency unless the emergency is located very close to the curtailed solar.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    It's a fair point (why curtailment is in effect), and I think speaks to the fact that more granular and timely data is needed wrt all nodes and transmission segment within the system. Also a call for more batteries everywhere between generation and load. With regards to transmission congestion, that is easily fixed with installing batteries at currently storageless renewable generation facilities (the batteries then charge with excess solar, and can continue to discharge after the sun sets or the wind dies down, maximizing transmission utilization temporally). The Inflation Reduction Act also enables those batteries to charge from utility side if needed, whereas before they could only charge from the renewable generation (AC vs DC coupling).
    - gunapologist99 2y ago
      Batteries are extremely expensive per megawatt, not very durable, require carefully controlled temperatures, and their manufacturer and recycling extract a tremendous cost from the environment. For non-mobile usage, batteries shouldn't be seen as any kind of viable solution at scale. However, there are other ways to store energy; unfortunately, most involve converting electricity to another form of energy such as potential (gravitational) energy, like pumping water uphill or lifting heavy weights. These also have relatively little long-term environmental cost. Unfortunately, they're a bit more inefficient (but so are batteries, relative to some other forms of stored energy such as fossil fuels). It'd be interesting if we could find some ways to convert landfills or other urban blight issues into a durable energy store without poisoning the environment.
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        > Batteries are extremely expensive per megawatt, not very durable, require carefully controlled temperatures, and their manufacturer and recycling extract a tremendous cost from the environment. For non-mobile usage, batteries shouldn't be seen as any kind of viable solution at scale. None of this is accurate. I encourage you to update your mental model with recent data. Citations below for your convenience. AMA, global energy transition is my passion. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/batteries-texas-consumers-683-million-january-day-january-winter-freeze-aurora/717083/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/batteries-texas-consumers-6... ("Utility Dive: Batteries saved Texas consumers $683M during 2-day January freeze: Aurora Energy Research") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40919052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40919052 ("HN: China's Batteries Are Now Cheap Enough to Power Huge Shifts") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601878 ("Lazard: IRA brings LCOS of 100MW, 4hr standalone BESS down as low as US$124/MWh" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35513612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35513612 ("HN: The biggest EV battery recycling plant in the US is open for business") https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-24/battery-recycling-shatters-the-myth-of-ev-battery-waste https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-24/battery-r... | https://archive.today/OjA91 https://archive.today/OjA91 ("Bloomberg: Battery Recycling Shatters the Myth of Electric Vehicle Waste") https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/2023-levelized-cost-of-energyplus/ https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/2023-levelized-cost... ("Lazard: 2023 Levelized Cost Of Energy+") https://raokonidena.substack.com/p/history-of-10000-cycles-or-10-year https://raokonidena.substack.com/p/history-of-10000-cycles-o... ("History of 10,000 cycles or 10 year warranty for Battery Energy Storage System (BESS)") https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy23osti/85332.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy23osti/85332.pdf ("NREL data shows BESS asset life is 15-20 years.") https://web.archive.org/web/20240728011101/https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c.png https://web.archive.org/web/20240728011101/https://www.eia.g... (US EIA; gray installations are new battery storage planned for deployment over the next 12 months, June 2024 through May 2025) https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61202 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61202 ("US EIA: U.S. battery storage capacity expected to nearly double in 2024") https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61424 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61424 ("US EIA: Solar and battery storage to make up 81% of new U.S. electric-generating capacity in 2024") https://www.woodmac.com/blogs/energy-pulse/battery-storage-begins-to-play-a-key-role-for-us-grids/ https://www.woodmac.com/blogs/energy-pulse/battery-storage-b... ("Wood Mackenzie: Battery storage begins to play a key role for US grids") https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/07/climate/battery-electricity-solar-california-texas.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/07/climate/batte... ("NY Times: Giant Batteries Are Transforming the Way the U.S. Uses Electricity")
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    The transmission lines run to solar farms should be able to take 100% of the output of the farm and then some otherwise the farm was over built and wasted money.
    - kccqzy 2y ago
      I agree with your use of the word "should" here. But that unfortunately is not what happens in reality.
    - adrianmonk 2y ago
      At short distances from the solar farm, yes. But it's not 100% in every direction for arbitrarily long distance. At some point, you assume the energy will be tend to be used sort of near where it's generated. To put it another way, if you build solar between city A and city B, would you build it so it can still be fully utilized even if city A stops using any power and city B wants all of it? No, you assume city A is always going to need some power.
      - rtkwe 2y ago
        Generally they connect directly to large back bone transmission lines that carry power far beyond the local area though not directly to more balkanized power zones. On a large scale yes if critical junctures go out the rest can't take the full load but that's different than a single plant being overspecced for the transmission capability it's connected to.
    - callalex 2y ago
      By this definition all reserve capacity is wasted money. That is clearly false, as demonstrated by the event in this article _not_ leading to failure and harm.
      - rtkwe 2y ago
        I'm not talking about reserve capacity at the grid level. I'm talking about excess capacity at the individual generation plant level that exceeds the grids capacity to take in. If you can't output the energy onto the grid the only benefit is for local maintenance and you don't need huge amounts of excess capacity to solve that and that excess doesn't help in the event of a large base producer like a nuclear plant going offline because it can't get onto the grid!
- huijzer 2y ago
  An individual inverter can usually switch in about 4 ms. A Tesla Megapack can go from 0% output to max output in 100 ms. Conversely, gas turbines (the fastest type of traditional power plant) takes about a minute to go from say 40% to 60%. Even in the fastest possible design, there is a mechanical rotor (kinetic energy) that has to change speed. What I mean to say is that solar and batteries are likely an order of magnitude faster to respond to sudden demand changes. So I would expect a more reliable system when more solar and especially batteries are being added.
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    IANAEE (not an electrical engineer), but doesn't a gas turbine spin at a constant speed to drive a 60Hz generator, regardless of whether it's running at 20%, 60%, or 100% of capacity?
    - markus92 2y ago
      When there’s a load imbalance on the grid (more load than capacity), the turbines physically slow down as inertial energy is extracted from them. This causes the grid frequency to drop. It takes some time to ramp up production and speed up the turbine etc.
      - bell-cot 2y ago
        The maximum slow-down of the turbines (before the generator trips off-line, removing the load on it) is far less than you seem to assume. The article's graph shows the 60.00Hz grid frequency dropping...all the way to 59.92Hz. That's 0.1333%. For an on-line gas turbine, the time to ramp up production is the second or few needed for the automated controls to open the throttle on the "Gas IN" pipe. It's basically a natural gas-burning turboprop jet engine, with the propeller replaced by a generator. (Yes, this can be less efficient in a combined cycle plant.)
        jeffbee 2y ago
        The more interesting thing about rotating power plants is that they are routinely destroyed by transmission outages, because when a rotating generator is suddenly disconnected from its load, there are infinity terms in the equations that govern its motion and infinity isn't a thing you can resist. For steam turbines the control system has to slam the valve shut on the steam, otherwise the machine would overspeed, and closing that valve destroys some sacrificial part of the steam plumbing (hopefully). Steam power plants have to be inspected and repaired after disconnects and this is one of the numerous reasons why fission kinda sucks on the reliability front.
- Reason077 2y ago
  > "(I am not familiar how long it takes from ISO signal to inverter command)." The grid frequency itself functions as a signal: a deviation below 50/60 Hz indicates support is needed, and a deviation above means curtailment is needed (or load added). Instant frequency-response assets such as batteries typically monitor the frequency independently and respond as required. They don't need to wait for explicit signals from the ISO.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    True! But this signal is typically locally monitored and responded to by individual assets ("frequency response" ancillary services). That is distinct from a grid operator, ISO, whomever is orchestrating grid health to call on generating units due to a supply crunch. Tesla Megapacks can respond within milliseconds to frequency and voltage sags (when configured to provide these services), but Autobidder is what orchestrates and pushes out overarching power control strategy to individual assets (for example) [1] [2] [3]. [1] https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software/autobidder https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software/autobidd... [2] https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software [3] https://electrek.co/2023/09/15/tesla-autobidder-product-330-million-energy-investors/ https://electrek.co/2023/09/15/tesla-autobidder-product-330-...
- sunshinesnacks 2y ago
  Grid following inverters can do something similar, although their response time is usually limited to the grid operator's automatic generation control (AGC) communication cycle, which is typically on the order of 4 to 6 seconds. And this requires plant controllers, and markets/contracts, to be setup for it. See https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy24osti/86932.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy24osti/86932.pdf. It deals with estimating reserves from these types of resources, but also talks a bit about general considerations, and references other good papers and demonstrations.
- seoulmetro 2y ago
  Something less interesting and more annoying is that in power generation surpluses instead of doing this, the government can just mandate that you buy power from them instead of get it free from the sun. Because a few hundred thousand chips in solar systems costs less than an entire network rethink.
Symbiote 2y ago
Where does the 1500MW of heat the reactor is producing go, immediately after the generators are isolated from the grid?
- csours 2y ago
  Water? Same place it was going
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    I mean, at least some percentage was going down the wire. That’s why we do it, right?
    - csours 2y ago
      It would be funny if we were doing the whole song and dance just to amuse the electrons. If the turbines are 50% efficient, then the heat load on the cooling towers would double, which I have to assume is WELL within design limits. You have made me wonder about turbine overspeed and steam bypass.
- rtkwe 2y ago
  The reactor is turned down and rapidly stops producing that much heat. On site backups keep the pumps running to continue cooling the residual heat. There's a long slow tail as lower energy fusion chains tail off towards lead but the vast majority of the power comes down quickly.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- pstrateman 2y ago
  Enthalpy of vaporization for water is very very large. The amount of heat that can be dissipated by evaporating water is kind of incredible.
  - 2y ago
konschubert 2y ago
I think the nodal pricing structure in the Texas grid is extremely conductive to an efficient electricity market. It incentivises the grid-stabilizing deployment of batteries. Texas is really the market to watch and learn from.
kmax12 2y ago
I helped write this! The data behind all the graphs in this post is here: https://www.gridstatus.io/dashboards/ercot-nuke-trip-july-2024 https://www.gridstatus.io/dashboards/ercot-nuke-trip-july-20... If you like grid data, we have a lot more info for the entire country here: https://www.gridstatus.io/live https://www.gridstatus.io/live
- leymed 2y ago
  Those links are very informative. Can you elaborate on Ancillary Services Monitor and Energy Storage Resource Action dashboards? What’s the installed capacity that supported? Also your original post link states event happened at 7:02 AM, your links here points to 8:05 AM. Can you explain this?
  - kmax12 2y ago
    You may need to check the time zone as some pages automatically adjust to local time of your browser. It happened at 7am CT.
    - leymed 2y ago
      That makes sense, I'm in EST. Just to clarify and understand what happened, I believe right after the trip some generators all around the grid picked up the load (unless UFLS was activated) immediately (around 7:03), we can call these generators support system. Then around 7:05 batteries kicked in with 468 MW, as a support to support system.
exabrial 2y ago
The Texas powergrid is so damn cool.
Havoc 2y ago
I know Texas wants their independence & politics etc but its a bit silly not to have at least an emergency linkage to the bigger grids around to help catch falls like this. Even a fairly modest 500MW or whatever.
- GaryNumanVevo 2y ago
  They have interconnects with Mexico. They relied on a 300MW interconnect during the 2011 winter storm outage.

113 points by kmax12 2y ago

Something interesting is that with substantial solar and batteries being deployed in the ERCOT market (in scope grid operator for this piece), solar generation in excess of what the grid can consume with load combined with grid forming inverters (vs traditional grid following) can step in when called upon if a traditionally firmer generator (coal or nuclear) trips out. The potential is already there (photons hitting panels), simply turned down to align with grid demand (curtailment), but if the sun is shining and PV is called upon, curtailment can quickly turn into emergency grid support as long as the sun is shining (I am not familiar how long it takes from ISO signal to inverter command). It would be cool if individual generators shared this curtailment status/reserve in realtime publicly similar to how ERCOT reports real time generation mix data. Citations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40908526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40908526 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38848989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38848989

kccqzy 2y ago
Most curtailment IIRC is due to insufficient transmission capacity. I doubt curtailed solar can be called upon in an emergency unless the emergency is located very close to the curtailed solar.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  It's a fair point (why curtailment is in effect), and I think speaks to the fact that more granular and timely data is needed wrt all nodes and transmission segment within the system. Also a call for more batteries everywhere between generation and load. With regards to transmission congestion, that is easily fixed with installing batteries at currently storageless renewable generation facilities (the batteries then charge with excess solar, and can continue to discharge after the sun sets or the wind dies down, maximizing transmission utilization temporally). The Inflation Reduction Act also enables those batteries to charge from utility side if needed, whereas before they could only charge from the renewable generation (AC vs DC coupling).
  - gunapologist99 2y ago
    Batteries are extremely expensive per megawatt, not very durable, require carefully controlled temperatures, and their manufacturer and recycling extract a tremendous cost from the environment. For non-mobile usage, batteries shouldn't be seen as any kind of viable solution at scale. However, there are other ways to store energy; unfortunately, most involve converting electricity to another form of energy such as potential (gravitational) energy, like pumping water uphill or lifting heavy weights. These also have relatively little long-term environmental cost. Unfortunately, they're a bit more inefficient (but so are batteries, relative to some other forms of stored energy such as fossil fuels). It'd be interesting if we could find some ways to convert landfills or other urban blight issues into a durable energy store without poisoning the environment.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      > Batteries are extremely expensive per megawatt, not very durable, require carefully controlled temperatures, and their manufacturer and recycling extract a tremendous cost from the environment. For non-mobile usage, batteries shouldn't be seen as any kind of viable solution at scale. None of this is accurate. I encourage you to update your mental model with recent data. Citations below for your convenience. AMA, global energy transition is my passion. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/batteries-texas-consumers-683-million-january-day-january-winter-freeze-aurora/717083/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/batteries-texas-consumers-6... ("Utility Dive: Batteries saved Texas consumers $683M during 2-day January freeze: Aurora Energy Research") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40919052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40919052 ("HN: China's Batteries Are Now Cheap Enough to Power Huge Shifts") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40601878 ("Lazard: IRA brings LCOS of 100MW, 4hr standalone BESS down as low as US$124/MWh" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35513612 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35513612 ("HN: The biggest EV battery recycling plant in the US is open for business") https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-24/battery-recycling-shatters-the-myth-of-ev-battery-waste https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-24/battery-r... | https://archive.today/OjA91 https://archive.today/OjA91 ("Bloomberg: Battery Recycling Shatters the Myth of Electric Vehicle Waste") https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/2023-levelized-cost-of-energyplus/ https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/2023-levelized-cost... ("Lazard: 2023 Levelized Cost Of Energy+") https://raokonidena.substack.com/p/history-of-10000-cycles-or-10-year https://raokonidena.substack.com/p/history-of-10000-cycles-o... ("History of 10,000 cycles or 10 year warranty for Battery Energy Storage System (BESS)") https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy23osti/85332.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy23osti/85332.pdf ("NREL data shows BESS asset life is 15-20 years.") https://web.archive.org/web/20240728011101/https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c.png https://web.archive.org/web/20240728011101/https://www.eia.g... (US EIA; gray installations are new battery storage planned for deployment over the next 12 months, June 2024 through May 2025) https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61202 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61202 ("US EIA: U.S. battery storage capacity expected to nearly double in 2024") https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61424 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61424 ("US EIA: Solar and battery storage to make up 81% of new U.S. electric-generating capacity in 2024") https://www.woodmac.com/blogs/energy-pulse/battery-storage-begins-to-play-a-key-role-for-us-grids/ https://www.woodmac.com/blogs/energy-pulse/battery-storage-b... ("Wood Mackenzie: Battery storage begins to play a key role for US grids") https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/07/climate/battery-electricity-solar-california-texas.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/07/climate/batte... ("NY Times: Giant Batteries Are Transforming the Way the U.S. Uses Electricity")
- rtkwe 2y ago
  The transmission lines run to solar farms should be able to take 100% of the output of the farm and then some otherwise the farm was over built and wasted money.
  - kccqzy 2y ago
    I agree with your use of the word "should" here. But that unfortunately is not what happens in reality.
  - adrianmonk 2y ago
    At short distances from the solar farm, yes. But it's not 100% in every direction for arbitrarily long distance. At some point, you assume the energy will be tend to be used sort of near where it's generated. To put it another way, if you build solar between city A and city B, would you build it so it can still be fully utilized even if city A stops using any power and city B wants all of it? No, you assume city A is always going to need some power.
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      Generally they connect directly to large back bone transmission lines that carry power far beyond the local area though not directly to more balkanized power zones. On a large scale yes if critical junctures go out the rest can't take the full load but that's different than a single plant being overspecced for the transmission capability it's connected to.
  - callalex 2y ago
    By this definition all reserve capacity is wasted money. That is clearly false, as demonstrated by the event in this article _not_ leading to failure and harm.
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      I'm not talking about reserve capacity at the grid level. I'm talking about excess capacity at the individual generation plant level that exceeds the grids capacity to take in. If you can't output the energy onto the grid the only benefit is for local maintenance and you don't need huge amounts of excess capacity to solve that and that excess doesn't help in the event of a large base producer like a nuclear plant going offline because it can't get onto the grid!
huijzer 2y ago
An individual inverter can usually switch in about 4 ms. A Tesla Megapack can go from 0% output to max output in 100 ms. Conversely, gas turbines (the fastest type of traditional power plant) takes about a minute to go from say 40% to 60%. Even in the fastest possible design, there is a mechanical rotor (kinetic energy) that has to change speed. What I mean to say is that solar and batteries are likely an order of magnitude faster to respond to sudden demand changes. So I would expect a more reliable system when more solar and especially batteries are being added.
- bell-cot 2y ago
  IANAEE (not an electrical engineer), but doesn't a gas turbine spin at a constant speed to drive a 60Hz generator, regardless of whether it's running at 20%, 60%, or 100% of capacity?
  - markus92 2y ago
    When there’s a load imbalance on the grid (more load than capacity), the turbines physically slow down as inertial energy is extracted from them. This causes the grid frequency to drop. It takes some time to ramp up production and speed up the turbine etc.
    - bell-cot 2y ago
      The maximum slow-down of the turbines (before the generator trips off-line, removing the load on it) is far less than you seem to assume. The article's graph shows the 60.00Hz grid frequency dropping...all the way to 59.92Hz. That's 0.1333%. For an on-line gas turbine, the time to ramp up production is the second or few needed for the automated controls to open the throttle on the "Gas IN" pipe. It's basically a natural gas-burning turboprop jet engine, with the propeller replaced by a generator. (Yes, this can be less efficient in a combined cycle plant.)
      - jeffbee 2y ago
        The more interesting thing about rotating power plants is that they are routinely destroyed by transmission outages, because when a rotating generator is suddenly disconnected from its load, there are infinity terms in the equations that govern its motion and infinity isn't a thing you can resist. For steam turbines the control system has to slam the valve shut on the steam, otherwise the machine would overspeed, and closing that valve destroys some sacrificial part of the steam plumbing (hopefully). Steam power plants have to be inspected and repaired after disconnects and this is one of the numerous reasons why fission kinda sucks on the reliability front.
Reason077 2y ago
> "(I am not familiar how long it takes from ISO signal to inverter command)." The grid frequency itself functions as a signal: a deviation below 50/60 Hz indicates support is needed, and a deviation above means curtailment is needed (or load added). Instant frequency-response assets such as batteries typically monitor the frequency independently and respond as required. They don't need to wait for explicit signals from the ISO.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  True! But this signal is typically locally monitored and responded to by individual assets ("frequency response" ancillary services). That is distinct from a grid operator, ISO, whomever is orchestrating grid health to call on generating units due to a supply crunch. Tesla Megapacks can respond within milliseconds to frequency and voltage sags (when configured to provide these services), but Autobidder is what orchestrates and pushes out overarching power control strategy to individual assets (for example) [1] [2] [3]. [1] https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software/autobidder https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software/autobidd... [2] https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/tesla-software [3] https://electrek.co/2023/09/15/tesla-autobidder-product-330-million-energy-investors/ https://electrek.co/2023/09/15/tesla-autobidder-product-330-...
sunshinesnacks 2y ago
Grid following inverters can do something similar, although their response time is usually limited to the grid operator's automatic generation control (AGC) communication cycle, which is typically on the order of 4 to 6 seconds. And this requires plant controllers, and markets/contracts, to be setup for it. See https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy24osti/86932.pdf https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy24osti/86932.pdf. It deals with estimating reserves from these types of resources, but also talks a bit about general considerations, and references other good papers and demonstrations.
seoulmetro 2y ago
Something less interesting and more annoying is that in power generation surpluses instead of doing this, the government can just mandate that you buy power from them instead of get it free from the sun. Because a few hundred thousand chips in solar systems costs less than an entire network rethink.

Symbiote 2y ago

Where does the 1500MW of heat the reactor is producing go, immediately after the generators are isolated from the grid?

csours 2y ago
Water? Same place it was going
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  I mean, at least some percentage was going down the wire. That’s why we do it, right?
  - csours 2y ago
    It would be funny if we were doing the whole song and dance just to amuse the electrons. If the turbines are 50% efficient, then the heat load on the cooling towers would double, which I have to assume is WELL within design limits. You have made me wonder about turbine overspeed and steam bypass.
rtkwe 2y ago
The reactor is turned down and rapidly stops producing that much heat. On site backups keep the pumps running to continue cooling the residual heat. There's a long slow tail as lower energy fusion chains tail off towards lead but the vast majority of the power comes down quickly.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
pstrateman 2y ago
Enthalpy of vaporization for water is very very large. The amount of heat that can be dissipated by evaporating water is kind of incredible.
- 2y ago

konschubert 2y ago

I think the nodal pricing structure in the Texas grid is extremely conductive to an efficient electricity market. It incentivises the grid-stabilizing deployment of batteries. Texas is really the market to watch and learn from.

kmax12 2y ago

I helped write this! The data behind all the graphs in this post is here: https://www.gridstatus.io/dashboards/ercot-nuke-trip-july-2024 https://www.gridstatus.io/dashboards/ercot-nuke-trip-july-20... If you like grid data, we have a lot more info for the entire country here: https://www.gridstatus.io/live https://www.gridstatus.io/live

leymed 2y ago
Those links are very informative. Can you elaborate on Ancillary Services Monitor and Energy Storage Resource Action dashboards? What’s the installed capacity that supported? Also your original post link states event happened at 7:02 AM, your links here points to 8:05 AM. Can you explain this?
- kmax12 2y ago
  You may need to check the time zone as some pages automatically adjust to local time of your browser. It happened at 7am CT.
  - leymed 2y ago
    That makes sense, I'm in EST. Just to clarify and understand what happened, I believe right after the trip some generators all around the grid picked up the load (unless UFLS was activated) immediately (around 7:03), we can call these generators support system. Then around 7:05 batteries kicked in with 468 MW, as a support to support system.

exabrial 2y ago

The Texas powergrid is so damn cool.

Havoc 2y ago

I know Texas wants their independence & politics etc but its a bit silly not to have at least an emergency linkage to the bigger grids around to help catch falls like this. Even a fairly modest 500MW or whatever.

GaryNumanVevo 2y ago
They have interconnects with Mexico. They relied on a 300MW interconnect during the 2011 winter storm outage.