5 ms·

Ozempic's biggest side effect: Turning Denmark into a 'pharmastate'?

• deterministic 2y ago
  Ozempic is not a long term solution. Studying nutrition, changing your diet to be healthier, and making sure you are on track by getting regular full panel blood tests is.
• deleted 2y ago
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• qwerty456127 2y ago
  > Ozempic is proving to be a powerful growth engine. Its worldwide sales have increased by over 60% in the past year alone. For what I know its sales are only limited by how much they can produce. Figuratively everybody everywhere wants Ozempic but the supply is limited and the prices are too high (could be even higher though - people would still buy).
  • Scoundreller 2y ago
    Probably going with the profit maximizing price. Which in a free market would still drop in price as supply increases to maximize profit.
    • johanvts 2y ago
      With competitors it would drop to margin cost, but without competitors I guess it becomes a function of the income distribution? Assuming cost pr. unit is fixed, it’s better to sell 1 unit for 100$ than 2 units for 50$.
  • TaylorAlexander 2y ago
    Notably I started Adderall this year and so far I’ve lost 20 pounds. I’m surprised everyone is so excited about Ozempic when other drugs can give similar results. I don’t even take a huge dose, just 10mg XR, but it seems to keep my appetite in check.
    • KeyBoardG 2y ago
      Well its an amphetamine, so there's that.
    • llamaimperative 2y ago
      Are you actually surprised or is this just a turn of phrase? Because there are very good, fairly obvious reasons to prefer Ozempic over an amphetamine for weight loss.
      • touisteur 2y ago
        Isn't it part of the plot of Requiem for a Dream ?
        • qwerty456127 2y ago
          Which obviously is dramatically exaggerated because it literally is a drama and a masterpiece of propaganda. Although I don't recommend trying it at home without supervision of a competent doctor and believe there are numerous people to whom it did more harm than good, I still am sure there are many people sustainably taking amphetamines (some even black market) for no harm at all and for great good managing their ADHD and appetite successfully.
          • touisteur 2y ago
            Yes of course. Although my two DTs and tapering off the bottle gave me a new appreciation to this movie. Reality can be far worse than Aronofsky's worst.
        • swader999 2y ago
          Flowers for Algernon.
        • FooBarBizBazz 2y ago
          Beat me to it. That movie hits like a ton of bricks.
      • 2y ago
  • simlevesque 2y ago
    > Figuratively everybody everywhere wants Ozempic I'm in great shape right now, in the middle of my healthy BMI range, would there be any benefit in using it for me ? Not that I would, just curious.
    • ceejayoz 2y ago
      Maybe; we don't know yet. https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/30/health/liraglutide-alzheimers-trial/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/30/health/liraglutide-alzheimers... > A small clinical trial suggests that drugs like Ozempic could potentially be used not just for diabetes and weight loss but to protect the brain, slowing the rate at which people with Alzheimer’s disease lose their ability to think clearly, remember things and perform daily activities. The results need to be borne out in larger trials, which are already underway, before the medicines could receive approval for the disease.
      • MPSimmons 2y ago
        It seems _likely_ to me that the benefit isn't directly from the drugs, but just from caloric restriction, which seems to have a bizarrely wide range of benefits. So, I guess sort of yes? If the person is already restricting their calories, though, probably not, if I'm right (which I may not be!)
    • qwerty456127 2y ago
      I once read it can help manage ADHD.
      • SmellTheGlove 2y ago
        n=1, it does nothing for my ADHD.
    • zampano 2y ago
      No, I don't think you'd see much benefit if you're already within a healthy BMI range. Generally, drugs like Ozempic or Wegovy are going to make you feel less hungry and, when you do eat, make you feel full faster. If you struggle maintaining a healthy weight without torturing yourself, or reducing cravings for food/binge eating, it can be great. Note: I'm not a doctor, just someone who has been prescribed a similar medication.
  • cflewis 2y ago
    I know someone prescribed for Wegovy/Ozempic for over a year now and has not managed to find any supply at all. I think a big problem is that pharmacists have to be sure they can _continue_ giving it to a new patient.
    • SmellTheGlove 2y ago
      The starter doses are hard to find. The larger doses are not. It depends on if your friend is trying to use insurance or not, but if they’re going out of pocket tell them to ask their doctor about prescribing the Ozempic 8mg pen and just using a click chart to dispense smaller doses. The upshot is the pen will last multiple months until you’re past 1mg dosage. I wonder when our big pharma overlords will close this option. If they’re waiting for Wegovy because it’s covered by insurance, unfortunately the pen is fixed dose on those. Also, the supply constraint seems to be the injector pens, not the drug itself. Personally, I think the scarcity is intentional, or we'd be getting this stuff in vials and using regular syringes. Unless I'm misinformed, I don't think there's any bottleneck in the manufacture of semaglutide itself.
      • ytjohn 2y ago
        > Also, the supply constraint seems to be the injector pens, not the drug itself. Personally, I think the scarcity is intentional, or we'd be getting this stuff in vials and using regular syringes. Unless I'm misinformed, I don't think there's any bottleneck in the manufacture of semaglutide itself. Almost certainly the case. I get semaglutide in a monthly vial for $250/month (off insurance). They provide regular syringes & wipes, but also recommend you order some spare in case any of the needles break (they are super thin). I know someone else getting Wegovy on insurance, and it's all pre-drawn injectors. > The starter doses are hard to find. The larger doses are not. My friend's experience was the opposite. When she moved to the higher doses, CVS was often unable to get it in, and she's had to ask her provider put in orders for the lower doses a few times because that was what they could get. I don't know specifically what does she's on though (I swear she said 7.5 once, which is close to the 8 you mention).
        • 2y ago
  • credit_guy 2y ago
    > For what I know its sales are only limited by how much they can produce. You are hinting that if only Novo Nordisk invested more in their production facilities, they could see much larger profits than their already astronomical ones they are seeing today. Except that if Eli Lilly manages to scale up before them, and everyone can buy tirzepatide instead of semaglutide, then Novo Nordisk's customer base could dry up overnight.
• mrweasel 2y ago
  One notable thing with Novo Nordisk, they do not attempt hide profits in tax heavens or use loop holes in Danish tax laws. The issue with the suggestion in the article, having other companies grow faster, is that Novo is monstrous in size, easily one of Europe's most valuable companies. Catching up is an almost impossible task, as is leveling up any number of smaller companies to sizes that collectively could rival Novo Nordisk.
  • deleted 2y ago
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  • rvense 2y ago
    I've heard they pay more in tax than no. 2 and no. 3 combined.
  • throwup238 2y ago
    > One notable thing with Novo Nordisk, they do not attempt hide profits in tax heavens or use loop holes in Danish tax laws. It’s a side effect of the ownership structure. Novo Nordisk is ultimately (mostly) owned by the Novo Nordisk Foundation through a holding group so any tax shenanigans at the for-profit just bite them in the ass at the foundation, which is already the wealthiest in the world.
• 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  …and Novo's patents on Ozempic expire within a decade, at which point it will probably have to fight against a wave of competition from generic-drug manufacturers. Massive understatement. Every biotech with the capability is already building out a pipeline to produce a generic or their own GLP drug. There is too much money at stake that everyone is going to want to grab a share. Which is going to make prices crumble for producers.
  • andrewstuart 2y ago
    >> Every biotech with the capability is already building out a pipeline to produce a generic or their own GLP drug. Just speculation or got a link?
    • 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
      Speculation, but below is a search hit about companies with public GLP1 programs in the works. These would be companies hoping to make an improved drug (oral or better weight loss/tolerability properties). I am sure there are others with less visibility. Generics development is probably more stealthy. I think technically you are not allowed to use/test a competitor compound, but I am sure everyone does it. https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2024/07/16/ozempic-and-wegovy-rivals-here-are-the-companies-working-on-competitor-weight-loss-drugs/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2024/07/16/ozempic-a...
    • hnburnsy 2y ago
      >Just speculation or got a link? The pipeline is bursting and many are more effective (longer lasting\better form factor). I think I count 18 from the main chart in this research paper... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-024-01473-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-024-01473-y From the conclusion... >A new era for obesity treatment has commenced where pharmacotherapy with combinations of entero-pancreatic hormones approach the WL efficacy of bariatric surgery. Tirzepatide is the first dual agonist which has been approved for chronic weight management, but numerous other dual and/or triple agonists (cagrisema, retatrutide, mazdutide and survodutide) are also in phase 3 trials as potential treatments for obesity and its metabolic complications. Moreover, oral GLP-1 RA are also under development and will provide an alternative option. >The plethora of efficacious obesity pharmacotherapies with different mechanisms of action will allow tailored treatment plans based on individual’s preference, comorbidities and treatment response. A percentage of people will not be able to tolerate the new pharmacotherapies or achieve the individualised goals and others may not have long-term access to these treatments. Combining different treatment modalities (including lifestyle interventions, pharmacotherapies and bariatric surgery) may support people to achieve individualised long-term goals, maximise health benefits and improve quality of life.
• oldpersonintx 2y ago
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• chmod775 2y ago
  The fact that people who are spending too much money on food would spend even more money to buy a weight-loss drug rather than get their food-intake under control, saving money, is an indictment of our species if I've ever seen one. At least it's supposed to decrease food cravings, so you might at least save some... Yet for some reason our species loves to come up with the most convoluted and expensive band-aid solutions rather than fixing a problem at its root. You can see the same with the whole atmospherical carbon-capture nonsense.
  • cokeandpepsi 2y ago
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  • asah 2y ago
    Lol, this is being written on a computer and I'm reading this on a computer. Neither existed for 99.9% of human history. Modern problems require modern solutions!
  • xattt 2y ago
    I would argue it’s not a bandaid solution if it gives individuals an opportunity to pull back the curtain and experience themselves in a state of moderated consumption.
  • SmellTheGlove 2y ago
    > The fact that people who are spending too much money on food would spend even more money to buy a weight-loss drug rather than get their food-intake under control, saving money, is an indictment of our species if I've ever seen one. This is needlessly judgmental. This drug reduces the impulse to eat when you're not actually hungry. We need to think about obesity as more than just a lack of self control - normal people don't have the impulse to eat all of the time, and this stuff just brings you to that baseline. The weight loss is literally a side effect of the drug.
    • xenospn 2y ago
      If you’re in the US, normal is actually overweight and constantly eating.
• andrewstuart 2y ago
  I wonder how long till Ozempic or Mounjaro or some alternative is freely available for anyone to walk into a pharmacy and buy off the shelf. 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?
  • giarc 2y ago
    You can buy it over the counter (OTC) in many countries right now, including Mexico.
    • andrewstuart 2y ago
      How does this fit with the comments here and the general commentary all ove the internet that these drugs are simply not available? Do you have anything to back your comment?
      • 93po 2y ago
        my guess is that the manufacturers of stuff OTC in mexico are not the same manufacturers that supply your local walgreens, and its only the product manufactured by Nova directly that is in short supply
      • TillE 2y ago
        The sketchier Mexican pharmacies (the kind that sell anything to tourists) get around any inconvenient supply issues by selling counterfeits. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/release/counterfeit-pills-sold-mexican-pharmacies-found-contain https://www.uclahealth.org/news/release/counterfeit-pills-so...
    • unshavedyak 2y ago
      The price is my concern. It’s like $1,000/m here last I checked
      • SkyPuncher 2y ago
        Many places are selling it for $200/month without insurance.
• beautifulfreak 2y ago
  Who makes the real profit on Ozempic/Wegovy? In the US, that would be Pharmacy Benefit Managers, who are middlemen between drugmakers and US health insurance companies. They have no shame in the exorbitant amounts they mark up prices. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYP5urTEWIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYP5urTEWIA
• akira2501 2y ago
  > without the contribution of the pharma sector. In other words, the company has almost single-handedly rescued the country from a recession. Fallacious thinking. It entirely ignores that labor is a market. If Novo Nordisk didn't exist, the labor would be used elsewhere, and who's to say that if used elsewhere it wouldn't be more profitable? For all we know Novo Nordisk drastically under performs given the inputs and is actually holding the country back. Disappointing seeing PR clap trap like this uncritically repeated by NPR.
  • jsnell 2y ago
    If other companies had more profitable uses for the labor than Novo, then surely they'd pay more for the labor, and the workers would take those jobs instead?
    • akira2501 2y ago
      It's a medication and so it has a limited patent protection window. The labor is built on an artificial monopoly. So, short term, you could be correct, long term, we cannot make any meaningful assertions. In particular, the assertion that Novo Nordisk single handedly saved the country from recession is ridiculous.
  • deleted 2y ago
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• torginus 2y ago
  While I'm shameful to admit my knowledge comes from that South Park episode, it does make a good point - manufacturing semaglutide can be done by a million places and labs, why would brand-name medication maintain its markup, when a billion competitors can and will sell you the same thing at a very thin profit margin?
  • tokai 2y ago
    You make a new drug. Its not the first time a pharmaceutical product has been important for the danish economy (though it is the biggest this time around). Citalopram from Lundbeck is another example.
• sharpshadow 2y ago
  The whole story is so epic in so many ways. South Park picked it up recently too, fun episode.