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I really want to like zig, but I've just had some annoying problems with it, most of which I think are just a result of it not being in 1.0 yet. For example, th

I really want to like zig, but I've just had some annoying problems with it, most of which I think are just a result of it not being in 1.0 yet. For example, the recommended way to start a project, with `zig init`, has a load of code that I really don't need when I just want a bare project to get started. I only recently found out that you can just `zig build-exe filename.zig` and skip the whole init part. Also I've had a lot of issues getting editor integration to work correctly. I've installed the VSCode extension but I don't seem to be getting autocomplete etc. It is quite possibly just an ID-10T problem though, so I'll probably take another look at it some weekend

flohofwoe 2y ago
Tbf, when coming from the C/C++ ecosystem, these types of problems are 'just another Tuesday' (especially for cross-platform projects and the official VSCode C/C++ extension).
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  Yeah, that's one of the reasons I dislike the C++ ecosystem so much and want to like Zig haha
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  This is part of the reason why I don't use VSCode for C(++). Jetbrains Clion seems to be the best IDE for those languages, with Visual Studio (the full fat one, costing a grand, as the free version lacks a bunch of features) as a close second, depending on what platform you're developing for. VSCode is great when it works, but in cases like these it quickly becomes obvious that it's a hodge-podge of tools glued together via extensions and command lines rather than a purpose-built IDE.
  - markus_zhang 2y ago
    I have never used Clion. Can you please share why you believe it is the top of the crop? I'm writing a C++/SDL2 game engine in Visual Studio but I think the IDE is really slow and error prone even for a small project. Everything just runs so slow. Maybe I need a better machine though.
    - winrid 2y ago
      CLion has a free trial you can try. I find it works really well. I use it on a 6yo laptop quite often for C++.
      - markus_zhang 2y ago
        Thanks! Just to confirm, are you using Windows?
        winrid 2y ago
        I use it on Windows and Linux for game development, mostly, with Meson or Cmake.
  - Quothling 2y ago
    I'm not one to defend VSC as such, but I do think it's fair to mention that a lot of the Zig issues have been directly with the Zig LSP (zls) and not necessarily with any specific editor extension. Though I suppose some of it may be worse with VSC as it's often been rather important to keep both your Zig and zls versions up-to-date and synchronized. I'm not sure how that happens with the VSC extension, but if it auto-updates your zls version (which it probably does) then it may race ahead of your Zig version which might cause problems.
- bobajeff 2y ago
  Note for people wanting to use vscode for c or c++ development. The clangd extension* is provides much better code completion and jump to definition compared to the default c/c++ extension. * https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=llvm-vs-code-extensions.vscode-clangd https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=llvm-vs-...
Cloudef 2y ago
zls should generally work out of the box but I don't use vscode, so your mileage may vary. Make sure your zls and zig versions match. zig build-exe, zig run can be fine for small things, but when you want to start importing modules or do something more fancy, build.zig is nice to have.
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  According to the extension, ZLS is optional, but according to some zig docs I found, its part of the extension. I may have misread, I'll try this stuff again sometime
  - brabel 2y ago
    As with all VSCode language extensions, they will try to download and manage ZLS for you. That's ok if it's done well, but they probably have some ways to go still. I just prefer using Zig on emacs with the built-in eglot LSP client. You just tell it where you installed ZLS (and it won't do magic to get it for you) and off you go. It's the same level of support as with VS Code. If you're not new to emacs, maybe consider that (otherwise emacs may be too much of a rabbit hole :)).
    - voidUpdate 2y ago
      My terminal editor of choice is nano :P
      - MobiusHorizons 2y ago
        It sounds like you have two editors at least, vscode and nano. Based on this description, I would assume you use nano for commit messages, config file updates, and not much more. If that’s the case, you may want to at least check out what emacs or vim can do for you with some basic lsp integration. These would be replacements for vscode not nano, although once you get used to them, you might switch EDITOR over. Compared to the complexity of systems programming, vim or eMacs should be well within your grasp.
jay-barronville 2y ago
> […] I've had a lot of issues getting editor integration to work correctly. I've installed the VSCode extension but I don't seem to be getting autocomplete etc. […] If you use ZLS [0], make sure you’re always using the right version for the Zig version you have installed on your machine. In my experience, that fixes 90% of editor issues I’ve encountered using Zig (I don’t use Visual Studio Code though, so it’s possible your editor issues are related to the editor itself). [0]: https://github.com/zigtools/zls https://github.com/zigtools/zls
nindalf 2y ago
Honestly same. I think it has the potential to be a great language and I'll definitely have a look at 1.0. Right now it's more for the people who are fine living on the bleeding edge. Nothing wrong with that, imo. It's hard to evolve a language without having the ability to make breaking changes. They're doing the right things, generally making the right calls, and taking their time building instead of rushing.
jeroenhd 2y ago
I have the same issue. It's hard to say if the tooling is working but incomplete, or if the tooling doesn't work for some reason. I can get syntax highlighting to work, but basic variable autocomplete doesn't, so I'm guessing the language server ran into some kind of issue. I really want to get started with Zig but I don't want to go back to the age of nano/edit.com for learning a new language. Zig is complex enough already.
- samatman 2y ago
  For what it's worth, outside of some outstanding issues with comptime (which are genuinely difficult, if ultimately solvable), I've found autocomplete, go-to-definition, and the other LSP semantic tools, to work fine in vs-code. You could hop on the Discord and get some help with your configuration if you'd like. All things Zig are somewhat underdocumented currently, that could use some polish for sure.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dgb23 2y ago
> For example, the recommended way to start a project, with `zig init`, has a load of code that I really don't need when I just want a bare project to get started. I recently started a new project. zig-init provides you with a working build.zig file and two very minimal project files under /src, one of which is a hello world binary and the other is a hello world library. > Also I've had a lot of issues getting editor integration to work correctly. ZLS is not at the same level of what you would expect from a more mature language. For example by default it will not help you with anything related to comptime. I highly recommend reading this fairly recent blog post by Loris Cro: https://kristoff.it/blog/improving-your-zls-experience/ https://kristoff.it/blog/improving-your-zls-experience/ It explains how you set up your build.zig and ZLS (a few lines of configuration) in order to get much more help from ZLS. It will then perform the equivalent of what `cargo check` (Rust) does.
- voidUpdate 2y ago
  Really? I get a main.zig file with a hello world as well as some maths, and a build.zig that has stuff that I can't work out how to correctly get rid of. I'm not currently at that workstation so I can't give specifics though. I feel it would be easier if it was literally just a hello world print and the build literally just built it, rather than doing tests on code I already know works, because it shipped with the language
  - dgb23 2y ago
    Yes, that's what I meant. But I think I talked passed you in a way. I think its fair criticism that as a beginner, you don't actually want to deal with build.zig or even understand it. You just want to write some code and run it and look at build.zig after you gained some familiarity with the language itself.
laeri 2y ago
In this case you probably haven't looked at it properly. There is just the starting entry main.zig, and a root.zig file which you can remove if you don't need it. Nothing complicated or annyling problems at this stage.

flohofwoe 2y ago

Tbf, when coming from the C/C++ ecosystem, these types of problems are 'just another Tuesday' (especially for cross-platform projects and the official VSCode C/C++ extension).

voidUpdate 2y ago
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I dislike the C++ ecosystem so much and want to like Zig haha
jeroenhd 2y ago
This is part of the reason why I don't use VSCode for C(++). Jetbrains Clion seems to be the best IDE for those languages, with Visual Studio (the full fat one, costing a grand, as the free version lacks a bunch of features) as a close second, depending on what platform you're developing for. VSCode is great when it works, but in cases like these it quickly becomes obvious that it's a hodge-podge of tools glued together via extensions and command lines rather than a purpose-built IDE.
- markus_zhang 2y ago
  I have never used Clion. Can you please share why you believe it is the top of the crop? I'm writing a C++/SDL2 game engine in Visual Studio but I think the IDE is really slow and error prone even for a small project. Everything just runs so slow. Maybe I need a better machine though.
  - winrid 2y ago
    CLion has a free trial you can try. I find it works really well. I use it on a 6yo laptop quite often for C++.
    - markus_zhang 2y ago
      Thanks! Just to confirm, are you using Windows?
      - winrid 2y ago
        I use it on Windows and Linux for game development, mostly, with Meson or Cmake.
- Quothling 2y ago
  I'm not one to defend VSC as such, but I do think it's fair to mention that a lot of the Zig issues have been directly with the Zig LSP (zls) and not necessarily with any specific editor extension. Though I suppose some of it may be worse with VSC as it's often been rather important to keep both your Zig and zls versions up-to-date and synchronized. I'm not sure how that happens with the VSC extension, but if it auto-updates your zls version (which it probably does) then it may race ahead of your Zig version which might cause problems.
bobajeff 2y ago
Note for people wanting to use vscode for c or c++ development. The clangd extension* is provides much better code completion and jump to definition compared to the default c/c++ extension. * https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=llvm-vs-code-extensions.vscode-clangd https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=llvm-vs-...

Cloudef 2y ago

zls should generally work out of the box but I don't use vscode, so your mileage may vary. Make sure your zls and zig versions match. zig build-exe, zig run can be fine for small things, but when you want to start importing modules or do something more fancy, build.zig is nice to have.

voidUpdate 2y ago
According to the extension, ZLS is optional, but according to some zig docs I found, its part of the extension. I may have misread, I'll try this stuff again sometime
- brabel 2y ago
  As with all VSCode language extensions, they will try to download and manage ZLS for you. That's ok if it's done well, but they probably have some ways to go still. I just prefer using Zig on emacs with the built-in eglot LSP client. You just tell it where you installed ZLS (and it won't do magic to get it for you) and off you go. It's the same level of support as with VS Code. If you're not new to emacs, maybe consider that (otherwise emacs may be too much of a rabbit hole :)).
  - voidUpdate 2y ago
    My terminal editor of choice is nano :P
    - MobiusHorizons 2y ago
      It sounds like you have two editors at least, vscode and nano. Based on this description, I would assume you use nano for commit messages, config file updates, and not much more. If that’s the case, you may want to at least check out what emacs or vim can do for you with some basic lsp integration. These would be replacements for vscode not nano, although once you get used to them, you might switch EDITOR over. Compared to the complexity of systems programming, vim or eMacs should be well within your grasp.

jay-barronville 2y ago

> […] I've had a lot of issues getting editor integration to work correctly. I've installed the VSCode extension but I don't seem to be getting autocomplete etc. […] If you use ZLS [0], make sure you’re always using the right version for the Zig version you have installed on your machine. In my experience, that fixes 90% of editor issues I’ve encountered using Zig (I don’t use Visual Studio Code though, so it’s possible your editor issues are related to the editor itself). [0]: https://github.com/zigtools/zls https://github.com/zigtools/zls

nindalf 2y ago

Honestly same. I think it has the potential to be a great language and I'll definitely have a look at 1.0. Right now it's more for the people who are fine living on the bleeding edge. Nothing wrong with that, imo. It's hard to evolve a language without having the ability to make breaking changes. They're doing the right things, generally making the right calls, and taking their time building instead of rushing.

jeroenhd 2y ago

I have the same issue. It's hard to say if the tooling is working but incomplete, or if the tooling doesn't work for some reason. I can get syntax highlighting to work, but basic variable autocomplete doesn't, so I'm guessing the language server ran into some kind of issue. I really want to get started with Zig but I don't want to go back to the age of nano/edit.com for learning a new language. Zig is complex enough already.

samatman 2y ago
For what it's worth, outside of some outstanding issues with comptime (which are genuinely difficult, if ultimately solvable), I've found autocomplete, go-to-definition, and the other LSP semantic tools, to work fine in vs-code. You could hop on the Discord and get some help with your configuration if you'd like. All things Zig are somewhat underdocumented currently, that could use some polish for sure.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dgb23 2y ago

> For example, the recommended way to start a project, with `zig init`, has a load of code that I really don't need when I just want a bare project to get started. I recently started a new project. zig-init provides you with a working build.zig file and two very minimal project files under /src, one of which is a hello world binary and the other is a hello world library. > Also I've had a lot of issues getting editor integration to work correctly. ZLS is not at the same level of what you would expect from a more mature language. For example by default it will not help you with anything related to comptime. I highly recommend reading this fairly recent blog post by Loris Cro: https://kristoff.it/blog/improving-your-zls-experience/ https://kristoff.it/blog/improving-your-zls-experience/ It explains how you set up your build.zig and ZLS (a few lines of configuration) in order to get much more help from ZLS. It will then perform the equivalent of what `cargo check` (Rust) does.

voidUpdate 2y ago
Really? I get a main.zig file with a hello world as well as some maths, and a build.zig that has stuff that I can't work out how to correctly get rid of. I'm not currently at that workstation so I can't give specifics though. I feel it would be easier if it was literally just a hello world print and the build literally just built it, rather than doing tests on code I already know works, because it shipped with the language
- dgb23 2y ago
  Yes, that's what I meant. But I think I talked passed you in a way. I think its fair criticism that as a beginner, you don't actually want to deal with build.zig or even understand it. You just want to write some code and run it and look at build.zig after you gained some familiarity with the language itself.

laeri 2y ago

In this case you probably haven't looked at it properly. There is just the starting entry main.zig, and a root.zig file which you can remove if you don't need it. Nothing complicated or annyling problems at this stage.