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"Have you ever had a friend return from a vacation and gush about how great it was to walk in the place they’d visited? “You can walk everywhere! To a café, to

by ars 2y ago

"Have you ever had a friend return from a vacation and gush about how great it was to walk in the place they’d visited? “You can walk everywhere! To a café, to the store. It was amazing!”" What is amazing about walking I have no idea. That sounds utterly horrible - to be in a place where everything is so close together that you can walk to everything? Space, humans need space. Ugh, I'm getting nauseated just thinking about it. And yes, I've been in places like that, I've tried them out, and they were as unpleasant as I expected. I tested it, I went to NY using only public transportation, and it was the most horrible time I've ever had being away from home. Never again! Never! My feet hurt, my back hurt, without a car I had nowhere to leave my stuff, so I had to carry everything with me, or make the long trek to my hotel (NY banned AirBNB, so hotels are far away from where I wanted to be). It was truly an absolutely miserable experience, and sitting in traffic, or hunting for a parking space is a billion times better. I've tried NY with a car before then, but I was told you don't need a car in NY - so I tried it! And they are wrong. Public transport is ALWAYS worse than a car, it's slower, much slower, it's less convenient because they only run during popular hours, it's more expensive than renting a car because you have to supplement with Uber. I don't know why I keep trying this no-car stuff, but I did, I tried Washington DC with and without a car. (I went for 2 days, one without a car, the second day with.) A car is better. MUCH MUCH better, and cheaper too, even paying for parking.

guitarlimeo 2y ago
Interesting! I have the exact opposite view, hunting for a parking space or sitting in traffic is billion times worse than walking or sitting in public transport. When you are driving, you must be alert, you can't just phase out to some youtube video the same way you can do while riding public transport. Also walking is the most natural thing to us humans, it shouldn't hurt and it won't if you do it regularly. I don't mean no offense, but have you considered that you drive too much or don't get exercise otherwise if walking hurts so bad?
sagarm 2y ago
If walking makes you hurt that much, you might want to talk to your doctor.
- dh2022 2y ago
  Run, do not walk , to your doctor!!! Ooops, that did not come out right…. Let me fix it…. Drive, do not walk to your doctor!!!
EliRivers 2y ago
Public transport is ALWAYS worse than a car, it's slower, much slower Well here's something odd. Just yesterday I was in a city crossing it from one side to the other, and it was so much faster by underground train than it would have been in a car. Yet your statement suggests that that real experience couldn't be true. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that public transport is SOMETIMES worse than a car. What do you think? Might that be more accurate?
wnolens 2y ago
> Space, humans need space. Humans need to move, more than they need space. > My feet hurt, my back hurt see above > I was told you don't need a car in NY - so I tried it! And they are wrong. Public transport is ALWAYS worse than a car, it's slower, much slower, it's less convenient because they only run during popular hours, it's more expensive than renting a car because you have to supplement with Uber. Some town in NY state designed for cars? of course? In NYC everything about this sentence is provably false.
senkora 2y ago
> I don't know why I keep trying this no-car stuff, but I did It might just not be for you, and that's okay. Your actual experience is more useful to you than anything I say below. My personal point-of-view is that I live in lower Manhattan, commute by electric bike, and regularly take the subway, buses, ferries, and commuter rail. I very rarely rent a car for trips outside the city. > I had nowhere to leave my stuff, so I had to carry everything with me There's definitely a learning curve there. It's usually possible too get by with less then you think if you plan in advance, but I don't know your situation. I have a little mini backpack where I carry my water bottle, charger bank, sunglasses, hat, and a reusable grocery bag. > or make the long trek to my hotel If you don't mind me asking, which neighborhood did you stay in? Was this in Manhattan? I would expect an average of a 5 minute walk to the subway, plus a 5 minute wait time for the train to arrive, and you shouldn't need to return to the hotel during the day. > I've tried NY with a car before then I think a lot of people don't realize how well a car works in NYC, even in Manhattan. In the outer boroughs it's probably the most convenient option. The main issues are 1) parking, which you don't seem to mind, and 2) rush hour traffic. Cars work very well here late at night and early in the morning, and pretty well during the day. Robert Moses built quite a lot of highways here. > Public transport is ... slower This is often true even in NYC, unless there is traffic. My rule of thumb is that the subway has a higher average time but a much lower variance. An electric bike is faster than both options, which is why delivery drivers here use electric bikes. In the tourist areas, there's usually traffic, so the subway is usually the better choice for visitors. The subway is also usually the better choice for commuters, because they commute during rush hour. > Public transport is ... less convenient because they only run during popular hours The NYC subway and buses are 24 hours and work well even in the middle of the night, although I would not recommend taking them to the outer boroughs in the middle of the night for safety reasons. > Public transport is ... more expensive than renting a car because you have to supplement with Uber This may be true depending on your personal tolerance for walking and the kinds of trips that you make. You really have to be okay walking up to 10 minutes on each end for public transit to make sense. This is also why New Yorkers walk so quickly!
primis 2y ago
I used to work in Manhattan, you 100% don't need a car there. A backpack for your stuff. Subways are a bit faster than walking for short/medium distances, faster if you're going interborough. But cars are so so much slower. Trying to drive in Manhattan traffic is torture. Maybe you need better walking shoes? Manhattan isn't flat but I wouldn't call it super hilly either. It's mostly level grade, and the sidewalks are for the most part well maintained.
oblio 2y ago
LOL. Isn't America the land of the free? Free market, land of opportunity, options galore? Just remove enforced single family zoning for 70%+ of your built up areas and let the free market decide, right? In most of the US right now you can decide to: 1. live in a single family home 2. live in a single family home 3. live in a single family home ... 98. live in a single family home 99. rent/buy a condo (if there are any in the area and you can afford it, because those areas are super expensive) 100. rent/buy a townhouse (if there are any in the area and you can afford it, because those areas are super expensive)
- pchristensen 2y ago
  Lol I always say I'm fine with people advocating for zoning restrictions, as long as they also acknowledge that land use planning is the most communist and regulated industry in America, in a way that would make the healthcare industry blush.
  - EliRivers 2y ago
    Land use planning is the most communist? Doesn't really seem to be run under priciples of common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange. How would one even have common ownership of land use planning? As for making the healthcare industry blush; the healthcare industry in the US is brutally uncommunist. Did you really mean communist? If so, in what way is land planning in the US operated under principles of common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange.
    - oblio 2y ago
      I think he meant communist in the everyday perception, more like authoritarian (so not communist in the dictionary sense). Super regulated, super indoctrinated, no freedom, basically.
      - pchristensen 2y ago
        Exactly.
Moldoteck 2y ago
Pub transport is slower if you design it this way. In NL bus and trams have own lanes, priority on semaphores and the paths to dest are usually shorter compared to car paths. Combine with needing to find the parking and in 90%+ you'll get faster with pub transport there than with a car. And pub transport can transport much more ppl than a bunch of cars since cars aren't shared and aren't space efficient even if you drive them full. A single tram with 7 sections in Basel can transport up to 1k ppl. Do you imagine the traffic you'd get with 800-1k cars instead of that tram? Public transport convenience is made by design, just like bike infra, just like pedestrian infra. The difference is what you prioritize
sensanaty 2y ago
Your feet and back hurt because you don't walk anywhere and are over-reliant on cars. They shouldn't hurt for small distances, our bodies are quite literally built for walking literally all day if need be. Also, walking doesn't need to be the only alternative. For medium distances, a bike is better in every single way, both health-wise and otherwise. It's fast, cheap, good exercise, you can store it literally anywhere and even bring it onto the trains for the long-distance travels.

by ars 2y ago

guitarlimeo 2y ago

Interesting! I have the exact opposite view, hunting for a parking space or sitting in traffic is billion times worse than walking or sitting in public transport. When you are driving, you must be alert, you can't just phase out to some youtube video the same way you can do while riding public transport. Also walking is the most natural thing to us humans, it shouldn't hurt and it won't if you do it regularly. I don't mean no offense, but have you considered that you drive too much or don't get exercise otherwise if walking hurts so bad?

sagarm 2y ago

If walking makes you hurt that much, you might want to talk to your doctor.

dh2022 2y ago
Run, do not walk , to your doctor!!! Ooops, that did not come out right…. Let me fix it…. Drive, do not walk to your doctor!!!

EliRivers 2y ago

Public transport is ALWAYS worse than a car, it's slower, much slower Well here's something odd. Just yesterday I was in a city crossing it from one side to the other, and it was so much faster by underground train than it would have been in a car. Yet your statement suggests that that real experience couldn't be true. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that public transport is SOMETIMES worse than a car. What do you think? Might that be more accurate?

wnolens 2y ago

> Space, humans need space. Humans need to move, more than they need space. > My feet hurt, my back hurt see above > I was told you don't need a car in NY - so I tried it! And they are wrong. Public transport is ALWAYS worse than a car, it's slower, much slower, it's less convenient because they only run during popular hours, it's more expensive than renting a car because you have to supplement with Uber. Some town in NY state designed for cars? of course? In NYC everything about this sentence is provably false.

senkora 2y ago

> I don't know why I keep trying this no-car stuff, but I did It might just not be for you, and that's okay. Your actual experience is more useful to you than anything I say below. My personal point-of-view is that I live in lower Manhattan, commute by electric bike, and regularly take the subway, buses, ferries, and commuter rail. I very rarely rent a car for trips outside the city. > I had nowhere to leave my stuff, so I had to carry everything with me There's definitely a learning curve there. It's usually possible too get by with less then you think if you plan in advance, but I don't know your situation. I have a little mini backpack where I carry my water bottle, charger bank, sunglasses, hat, and a reusable grocery bag. > or make the long trek to my hotel If you don't mind me asking, which neighborhood did you stay in? Was this in Manhattan? I would expect an average of a 5 minute walk to the subway, plus a 5 minute wait time for the train to arrive, and you shouldn't need to return to the hotel during the day. > I've tried NY with a car before then I think a lot of people don't realize how well a car works in NYC, even in Manhattan. In the outer boroughs it's probably the most convenient option. The main issues are 1) parking, which you don't seem to mind, and 2) rush hour traffic. Cars work very well here late at night and early in the morning, and pretty well during the day. Robert Moses built quite a lot of highways here. > Public transport is ... slower This is often true even in NYC, unless there is traffic. My rule of thumb is that the subway has a higher average time but a much lower variance. An electric bike is faster than both options, which is why delivery drivers here use electric bikes. In the tourist areas, there's usually traffic, so the subway is usually the better choice for visitors. The subway is also usually the better choice for commuters, because they commute during rush hour. > Public transport is ... less convenient because they only run during popular hours The NYC subway and buses are 24 hours and work well even in the middle of the night, although I would not recommend taking them to the outer boroughs in the middle of the night for safety reasons. > Public transport is ... more expensive than renting a car because you have to supplement with Uber This may be true depending on your personal tolerance for walking and the kinds of trips that you make. You really have to be okay walking up to 10 minutes on each end for public transit to make sense. This is also why New Yorkers walk so quickly!

primis 2y ago

I used to work in Manhattan, you 100% don't need a car there. A backpack for your stuff. Subways are a bit faster than walking for short/medium distances, faster if you're going interborough. But cars are so so much slower. Trying to drive in Manhattan traffic is torture. Maybe you need better walking shoes? Manhattan isn't flat but I wouldn't call it super hilly either. It's mostly level grade, and the sidewalks are for the most part well maintained.

oblio 2y ago

LOL. Isn't America the land of the free? Free market, land of opportunity, options galore? Just remove enforced single family zoning for 70%+ of your built up areas and let the free market decide, right? In most of the US right now you can decide to: 1. live in a single family home 2. live in a single family home 3. live in a single family home ... 98. live in a single family home 99. rent/buy a condo (if there are any in the area and you can afford it, because those areas are super expensive) 100. rent/buy a townhouse (if there are any in the area and you can afford it, because those areas are super expensive)

pchristensen 2y ago
Lol I always say I'm fine with people advocating for zoning restrictions, as long as they also acknowledge that land use planning is the most communist and regulated industry in America, in a way that would make the healthcare industry blush.
- EliRivers 2y ago
  Land use planning is the most communist? Doesn't really seem to be run under priciples of common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange. How would one even have common ownership of land use planning? As for making the healthcare industry blush; the healthcare industry in the US is brutally uncommunist. Did you really mean communist? If so, in what way is land planning in the US operated under principles of common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange.
  - oblio 2y ago
    I think he meant communist in the everyday perception, more like authoritarian (so not communist in the dictionary sense). Super regulated, super indoctrinated, no freedom, basically.
    - pchristensen 2y ago
      Exactly.

Moldoteck 2y ago

Pub transport is slower if you design it this way. In NL bus and trams have own lanes, priority on semaphores and the paths to dest are usually shorter compared to car paths. Combine with needing to find the parking and in 90%+ you'll get faster with pub transport there than with a car. And pub transport can transport much more ppl than a bunch of cars since cars aren't shared and aren't space efficient even if you drive them full. A single tram with 7 sections in Basel can transport up to 1k ppl. Do you imagine the traffic you'd get with 800-1k cars instead of that tram? Public transport convenience is made by design, just like bike infra, just like pedestrian infra. The difference is what you prioritize

sensanaty 2y ago

Your feet and back hurt because you don't walk anywhere and are over-reliant on cars. They shouldn't hurt for small distances, our bodies are quite literally built for walking literally all day if need be. Also, walking doesn't need to be the only alternative. For medium distances, a bike is better in every single way, both health-wise and otherwise. It's fast, cheap, good exercise, you can store it literally anywhere and even bring it onto the trains for the long-distance travels.