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This kind of automated ticket (or beyond, think apple on devices scanning) enforcement is straight up police state/Fascism - do you want to live in a world wher

This kind of automated ticket (or beyond, think apple on devices scanning) enforcement is straight up police state/Fascism - do you want to live in a world where your existence is at every second scanned for illegal acts?

zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
I don't know how this is fascist
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Dystopian?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    To the degree speed cameras are. (I’d call them annoying more than dystopian. They’re dystopian if used for broader surveillance.)
- jonhohle 2y ago
  It often makes me think of Rick from The Young Ones[0]. 0 - https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/06/07/everyones-turning-into-rick-from-the-young-ones/amp/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/06/07/everyones-turning-i...
- chank 2y ago
  It's more something Fascists tend to do. Strict Monitoring/Policing of the populace to elicit desired behavior.
coffeecloud 2y ago
“Existence at every second” is very different than “when choosing to drive on a public road”
- chank 2y ago
  It is, but it's also a slippery slope to constantly monitor behavior in order to coerce a desired response.
  - coffeecloud 2y ago
    What’s the difference between “constantly monitor behavior in order to coerce a desired response” and “enforcing the law”? Are traffic cameras a slippery slope to cameras in your house to make sure your aren’t doing drugs or building an unpermitted additon?
    - chank 2y ago
      They definitly can be. That's the slope. Where do you stop. Any totalitarian worth thier salt can easily make that leap. Use monitoring to curb one type of crime and "undesirable" behavior, why not use it for other types and before you know it, your entire existince is monitored in detail just to make sure you're acting exactly the way "they" want you to. That's how it works. The "I have nothing to hide" is a long debunked argument.
      - coffeecloud 2y ago
        Then why enforce any laws? Any enforcement is on the same slippery slope. I don’t think slope is nearly as slippery as you claim. There are miles of high friction slope between enforcing traffic laws on public roads and totalitarianism.
        chank 2y ago
        Edgar Friendly said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjoSQ-lCA58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjoSQ-lCA58
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  It's a little bit different, but not very different. I object strongly to the idea that if something is in public then unlimited surveillance is acceptable. Cameras everywhere magnifying the eyes of the government by orders of magnitude is a very bad thing. People exist in public. There should be very little tracking as a baseline.
spankalee 2y ago
Enforcing traffic laws is good, actually. Automated enforcement is even better so that we don't need to use armed police and can enforce consistently. Speeding, reckless driving, running red lights and stop signs is absolutely rampant where I live and people really do die because of it. I'm tired of entitled assholes thinking that they can drive however they want, endanger everyone around them, and that they just have the right to do that. Even if they don't value their own lives, we value ours. So I strongly support red light and speed cameras, traffic calming, and physical pedestrian and bike barriers. Not sure sure about cars self-reporting, only because you could just buy a different car. There is a pretty strong argument that cars have no need to be able go 50+ mph over the speed limit like they can now.
- bigthymer 2y ago
  Maybe a better middle ground is that other people can record and report you instead of being forced to report yourself. This way, people can freely drive how they want so long as they are respectful of others around them.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > better middle ground is that other people can record and report you instead of being forced to report yourself That’s what this is. The patent is about reporting other cars. The title is clickbait.
    - buildbot 2y ago
      Do you want to live an a semi-automated panopticon of your peers? I really don’t!
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Do you want to live an a semi-automated panopticon of your peers? Within the context of speeding and the driver having control over when the report is sent in, I think the safety gains are worth the trade-off.
on_the_train 2y ago
There is no privacy value of vehicle speed. But it offers great value to society when it's being automatically enforced according to law. I think the pros outweigh the cons heavily here.
tootie 2y ago
It absolutely is not. Police State does not refer to excessive policing. It means police enforcing political agenda. Frankly, the US has a disgusting excess of traffic fatalities and no Constitutional protections to driving. I think heavy-handed safety enforcement is entirely warranted.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  I do agree with your point, but I wanted to mention that lately I have found that, in a philosophical way I guess, everything is political whether we want it to be or not. What's not an agenda to you, IS to someone else. Even if it's merely your inaction to do something, whether calculated or not. Unfortunately this seems to be the cause of a lot of debates... just differences in opinion over terminology basically, but I think people all too often don't look at it that way.
downrightmike 2y ago
Then the cars need to limit their own speed and ticket Ford etc for making a vehicle that violates the law.

zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago

I don't know how this is fascist

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Dystopian?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  To the degree speed cameras are. (I’d call them annoying more than dystopian. They’re dystopian if used for broader surveillance.)
jonhohle 2y ago
It often makes me think of Rick from The Young Ones[0]. 0 - https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/06/07/everyones-turning-into-rick-from-the-young-ones/amp/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/06/07/everyones-turning-i...
chank 2y ago
It's more something Fascists tend to do. Strict Monitoring/Policing of the populace to elicit desired behavior.

coffeecloud 2y ago

“Existence at every second” is very different than “when choosing to drive on a public road”

chank 2y ago
It is, but it's also a slippery slope to constantly monitor behavior in order to coerce a desired response.
- coffeecloud 2y ago
  What’s the difference between “constantly monitor behavior in order to coerce a desired response” and “enforcing the law”? Are traffic cameras a slippery slope to cameras in your house to make sure your aren’t doing drugs or building an unpermitted additon?
  - chank 2y ago
    They definitly can be. That's the slope. Where do you stop. Any totalitarian worth thier salt can easily make that leap. Use monitoring to curb one type of crime and "undesirable" behavior, why not use it for other types and before you know it, your entire existince is monitored in detail just to make sure you're acting exactly the way "they" want you to. That's how it works. The "I have nothing to hide" is a long debunked argument.
    - coffeecloud 2y ago
      Then why enforce any laws? Any enforcement is on the same slippery slope. I don’t think slope is nearly as slippery as you claim. There are miles of high friction slope between enforcing traffic laws on public roads and totalitarianism.
      - chank 2y ago
        Edgar Friendly said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjoSQ-lCA58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjoSQ-lCA58
Dylan16807 2y ago
It's a little bit different, but not very different. I object strongly to the idea that if something is in public then unlimited surveillance is acceptable. Cameras everywhere magnifying the eyes of the government by orders of magnitude is a very bad thing. People exist in public. There should be very little tracking as a baseline.

spankalee 2y ago

Enforcing traffic laws is good, actually. Automated enforcement is even better so that we don't need to use armed police and can enforce consistently. Speeding, reckless driving, running red lights and stop signs is absolutely rampant where I live and people really do die because of it. I'm tired of entitled assholes thinking that they can drive however they want, endanger everyone around them, and that they just have the right to do that. Even if they don't value their own lives, we value ours. So I strongly support red light and speed cameras, traffic calming, and physical pedestrian and bike barriers. Not sure sure about cars self-reporting, only because you could just buy a different car. There is a pretty strong argument that cars have no need to be able go 50+ mph over the speed limit like they can now.

bigthymer 2y ago
Maybe a better middle ground is that other people can record and report you instead of being forced to report yourself. This way, people can freely drive how they want so long as they are respectful of others around them.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > better middle ground is that other people can record and report you instead of being forced to report yourself That’s what this is. The patent is about reporting other cars. The title is clickbait.
  - buildbot 2y ago
    Do you want to live an a semi-automated panopticon of your peers? I really don’t!
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Do you want to live an a semi-automated panopticon of your peers? Within the context of speeding and the driver having control over when the report is sent in, I think the safety gains are worth the trade-off.

on_the_train 2y ago

There is no privacy value of vehicle speed. But it offers great value to society when it's being automatically enforced according to law. I think the pros outweigh the cons heavily here.

tootie 2y ago

It absolutely is not. Police State does not refer to excessive policing. It means police enforcing political agenda. Frankly, the US has a disgusting excess of traffic fatalities and no Constitutional protections to driving. I think heavy-handed safety enforcement is entirely warranted.

ranger_danger 2y ago
I do agree with your point, but I wanted to mention that lately I have found that, in a philosophical way I guess, everything is political whether we want it to be or not. What's not an agenda to you, IS to someone else. Even if it's merely your inaction to do something, whether calculated or not. Unfortunately this seems to be the cause of a lot of debates... just differences in opinion over terminology basically, but I think people all too often don't look at it that way.

downrightmike 2y ago

Then the cars need to limit their own speed and ticket Ford etc for making a vehicle that violates the law.