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>It may be yet another disaster but let's not downplay what created an actual disaster What created the "actual disaster" is a totally different set of events,

>It may be yet another disaster but let's not downplay what created an actual disaster What created the "actual disaster" is a totally different set of events, to go into here, but the start is the gradual de-inudstrialization through EU imposed mandates and "five year plans", imposed across the periphery, for the benefit of German and (to a lesser degree) French exports.

crop_rotation 2y ago
Can you elaborate more on the EU mandates which led to de-inudstrialization. I just want to learn more on this topic so any resources will be helpful.
- coldtea 2y ago
  The EU development was akin to putting two dozen of sardines or so into a tank along with a couple of sharks and hopping for the best. Oh, and they all get their vote so it's all democratic, who cares if the shardines can be unilaterally economically and politically bullied to vote in favor of the shark'? This tells parts of the story going back: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/edit/10.4324/9781315542966/crisis-european-monetary-union-annamaria-simonazzi-andrea-ginzburg-dario-guarascio-giuseppe-celi?refId=4c677558-bd81-403c-8ad6-5d3ad38f0869&context=ubx https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/edit/10.4324/97813155429... If you know what to look for, you can find tons of sources on various aspects of the process, e.g: https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/750-europe-s-decline-a-german-story https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/750-europe-... or: https://www.politico.eu/article/european-central-bank-nepotism-nationality-problem-christine-lagarde-mario-draghi/ https://www.politico.eu/article/european-central-bank-nepoti...
vondur 2y ago
Hasn’t Germany deindustrialized itself? I heard that Bayer moved manufacturing out to China as they were worried that they wouldn’t have enough power during the previous winter.
- ein0p 2y ago
  That pain is coming in earnest next year. Ukraine is still transiting Russian gas to the EU, but the deal is expiring at the end of this year. Germany will deindustrialize much more in the next few years until they turn on the only intact Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline
- bgnn 2y ago
  Nah. That is due to US bombing Nordstream pipelines and Germany having no plan-B on emergy dependency. The real problem is Germany got a very comfortable market within EU by bullying all the Southern Europe into submission (even France!) and killing their production. This got German companies complacent. Their auto industry is dying a slow death and all they do is more protectionist regulations. Stuff like dieselgate is a direct result of this.
- nradov 2y ago
  That is at least partly true. Some chemical manufacturers that depended on natural gas have moved production out of Germany. https://cen.acs.org/business/Germanys-chemical-industry-survive-gas/101/i19 https://cen.acs.org/business/Germanys-chemical-industry-surv...

crop_rotation 2y ago

Can you elaborate more on the EU mandates which led to de-inudstrialization. I just want to learn more on this topic so any resources will be helpful.

coldtea 2y ago
The EU development was akin to putting two dozen of sardines or so into a tank along with a couple of sharks and hopping for the best. Oh, and they all get their vote so it's all democratic, who cares if the shardines can be unilaterally economically and politically bullied to vote in favor of the shark'? This tells parts of the story going back: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/edit/10.4324/9781315542966/crisis-european-monetary-union-annamaria-simonazzi-andrea-ginzburg-dario-guarascio-giuseppe-celi?refId=4c677558-bd81-403c-8ad6-5d3ad38f0869&context=ubx https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/edit/10.4324/97813155429... If you know what to look for, you can find tons of sources on various aspects of the process, e.g: https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/750-europe-s-decline-a-german-story https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/750-europe-... or: https://www.politico.eu/article/european-central-bank-nepotism-nationality-problem-christine-lagarde-mario-draghi/ https://www.politico.eu/article/european-central-bank-nepoti...

vondur 2y ago

Hasn’t Germany deindustrialized itself? I heard that Bayer moved manufacturing out to China as they were worried that they wouldn’t have enough power during the previous winter.

ein0p 2y ago
That pain is coming in earnest next year. Ukraine is still transiting Russian gas to the EU, but the deal is expiring at the end of this year. Germany will deindustrialize much more in the next few years until they turn on the only intact Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline
bgnn 2y ago
Nah. That is due to US bombing Nordstream pipelines and Germany having no plan-B on emergy dependency. The real problem is Germany got a very comfortable market within EU by bullying all the Southern Europe into submission (even France!) and killing their production. This got German companies complacent. Their auto industry is dying a slow death and all they do is more protectionist regulations. Stuff like dieselgate is a direct result of this.
nradov 2y ago
That is at least partly true. Some chemical manufacturers that depended on natural gas have moved production out of Germany. https://cen.acs.org/business/Germanys-chemical-industry-survive-gas/101/i19 https://cen.acs.org/business/Germanys-chemical-industry-surv...