4 ms·

Felt really difficult to follow this article into any takeaways about the payments industry, it could be that I am just dumb though. Had to plug it into chatgpt

by mym1990 2y ago

Felt really difficult to follow this article into any takeaways about the payments industry, it could be that I am just dumb though. Had to plug it into chatgpt to effectively get "it is challenging to use Visa's overall revenue growth as a straightforward indicator of broader economic health."

meiraleal 2y ago
There is no takeaway. It just says it is growing and seem like it will continue to grow, even tho day-by-day reality is clear that Visa (and mastercard) is losing marketshare in many places to national payment services and fintechs.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  > even tho day-by-day reality is clear that Visa (and mastercard) is losing marketshare in many places to fintechs. Do you have any evidence for that at all? The majority of fintechs I can think of (at least the ones that provide cards, either debit or credit) do so on the Visa or MC payment rails.
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    > The majority of fintechs I can think of I imagine you live in the US.
    - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
      Fair enough, yes. I know the payment situation is very different worldwide, especially in 2nd/3rd world countries (Brazil, India, Southeast Asia, Africa, etc.). But if you look at some of the top fintechs in both the US and Europe (e.g. Chime, Revolut, Brex, Robinhood, SoFi, etc.) all help extend Visa and MC's reach.
      - marcosdumay 2y ago
        > especially in 2nd/3rd world countries I'd suggest you read around the threads here to see all the comments about the EU and Japan.
  - tossandthrow 2y ago
    Many countries have alternative networks that does not rely on the card (metaphor). Stuff like Indias UPI etc. Keep in mind that payments are broader than cards.
  - dublinben 2y ago
    Buy Now Pay Later is growing very quickly and taking market share from credit cards, especially for younger consumers. The introduction of FedNow is going to make it even more convenient to use these apps to make purchases and avoid the credit card infrastructure entirely.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      >Buy Now Pay Later is growing very quickly and taking market share from credit cards, especially for younger consumers. One of our greatest failings as a society is our abject failure to teach people finances. It's as critical to our lives as breathing, eating, and crapping, yet the vast majority of people can't even count change let alone understand credit. Incidentally, anyone telling you BNPL is good for you is trying to milk you. Please just don't and stick to cash/debit or good old credit cards, for your friends' and family's sake if not yourself.
      - anonym29 2y ago
        This, like so many other issues, is an issue that a small but powerful contingent of moneyed interests (e.g. the debt industry, also known as the financial industry) works very hard and spends lots of money lobbying on, in order to ensure we're not solving the problem. This is not much different from Microsoft fighting open source, Apple fighting right to repair, or Google fighting the CCPA. As always: Cui Bono? Follow the money.
      - kardos 2y ago
        BNPL is often free to the customer [1], to whom it amounts to a free loan. The merchant, however, is soaked for the interest/fees. So merchant prices will rise slightly, for everyone, to cover those costs..... much like credit cards do now. Cash and debit users subsidize this scheme without getting the free loan. The downside for the customer is that it promotes overspending, which could be argued as a net negative on the whole. A careful consumer could make use of the free loan, investing the cash elsewhere during the loan period. [1] https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/buy-now-pay-later/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/buy-now-pay-later/
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    I can only talk about my country, Brazil. It took 2 years for the national payment system PIX to surpass both visa and mastercard and become the most used mean of payment
- mort96 2y ago
  So eh what does Visa earnings tell us about the state of the payments industry?
  - noisyshart 2y ago
    [flagged]
- flessner 2y ago
  Maybe if I want to send my friend $5 Paypal or whatever can do that, but what fintech is actually taking market share from them at merchants? Maybe it is because I am in Germany, but merchants here only accept cash, girocard and credit cards - online shops obviously have a wider selection that regularly includes Paypal in Klarna, but I wouldn't expect credit cards to loose a lot of market share to them. So in which geographic regions is this actually the case? Do you have any source I could read on this as I am quite interested.
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    > Maybe if I want to send my friend $5 Paypal or whatever can do that, but what fintech is actually taking market share from them at merchants? UPI, Pix, FedNow and many others make direct payment much easier. In Brazil is now more common to accept Pix and not accept credit card than the opposite, although almost everywhere accepts card. But literally everywhere accepts Pix (and every app that uses it).
    - marcosdumay 2y ago
      > But literally everywhere accepts Pix (and every app that uses it). I just want to clarify, because this phrase looks like a huge understatement. Beggars on the street accept Pix.
fancytaco 2y ago
I would've summarized it for you for half the cost.

meiraleal 2y ago

There is no takeaway. It just says it is growing and seem like it will continue to grow, even tho day-by-day reality is clear that Visa (and mastercard) is losing marketshare in many places to national payment services and fintechs.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
> even tho day-by-day reality is clear that Visa (and mastercard) is losing marketshare in many places to fintechs. Do you have any evidence for that at all? The majority of fintechs I can think of (at least the ones that provide cards, either debit or credit) do so on the Visa or MC payment rails.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  > The majority of fintechs I can think of I imagine you live in the US.
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    Fair enough, yes. I know the payment situation is very different worldwide, especially in 2nd/3rd world countries (Brazil, India, Southeast Asia, Africa, etc.). But if you look at some of the top fintechs in both the US and Europe (e.g. Chime, Revolut, Brex, Robinhood, SoFi, etc.) all help extend Visa and MC's reach.
    - marcosdumay 2y ago
      > especially in 2nd/3rd world countries I'd suggest you read around the threads here to see all the comments about the EU and Japan.
- tossandthrow 2y ago
  Many countries have alternative networks that does not rely on the card (metaphor). Stuff like Indias UPI etc. Keep in mind that payments are broader than cards.
- dublinben 2y ago
  Buy Now Pay Later is growing very quickly and taking market share from credit cards, especially for younger consumers. The introduction of FedNow is going to make it even more convenient to use these apps to make purchases and avoid the credit card infrastructure entirely.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    >Buy Now Pay Later is growing very quickly and taking market share from credit cards, especially for younger consumers. One of our greatest failings as a society is our abject failure to teach people finances. It's as critical to our lives as breathing, eating, and crapping, yet the vast majority of people can't even count change let alone understand credit. Incidentally, anyone telling you BNPL is good for you is trying to milk you. Please just don't and stick to cash/debit or good old credit cards, for your friends' and family's sake if not yourself.
    - anonym29 2y ago
      This, like so many other issues, is an issue that a small but powerful contingent of moneyed interests (e.g. the debt industry, also known as the financial industry) works very hard and spends lots of money lobbying on, in order to ensure we're not solving the problem. This is not much different from Microsoft fighting open source, Apple fighting right to repair, or Google fighting the CCPA. As always: Cui Bono? Follow the money.
    - kardos 2y ago
      BNPL is often free to the customer [1], to whom it amounts to a free loan. The merchant, however, is soaked for the interest/fees. So merchant prices will rise slightly, for everyone, to cover those costs..... much like credit cards do now. Cash and debit users subsidize this scheme without getting the free loan. The downside for the customer is that it promotes overspending, which could be argued as a net negative on the whole. A careful consumer could make use of the free loan, investing the cash elsewhere during the loan period. [1] https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/buy-now-pay-later/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/buy-now-pay-later/
- meiraleal 2y ago
  I can only talk about my country, Brazil. It took 2 years for the national payment system PIX to surpass both visa and mastercard and become the most used mean of payment
mort96 2y ago
So eh what does Visa earnings tell us about the state of the payments industry?
- noisyshart 2y ago
  [flagged]
flessner 2y ago
Maybe if I want to send my friend $5 Paypal or whatever can do that, but what fintech is actually taking market share from them at merchants? Maybe it is because I am in Germany, but merchants here only accept cash, girocard and credit cards - online shops obviously have a wider selection that regularly includes Paypal in Klarna, but I wouldn't expect credit cards to loose a lot of market share to them. So in which geographic regions is this actually the case? Do you have any source I could read on this as I am quite interested.
- meiraleal 2y ago
  > Maybe if I want to send my friend $5 Paypal or whatever can do that, but what fintech is actually taking market share from them at merchants? UPI, Pix, FedNow and many others make direct payment much easier. In Brazil is now more common to accept Pix and not accept credit card than the opposite, although almost everywhere accepts card. But literally everywhere accepts Pix (and every app that uses it).
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    > But literally everywhere accepts Pix (and every app that uses it). I just want to clarify, because this phrase looks like a huge understatement. Beggars on the street accept Pix.

fancytaco 2y ago

I would've summarized it for you for half the cost.