5 ms·

As the Great Salt Lake dries up, it is emitting millions of tons of of CO2

44 points by rntn 2y ago

goda90 2y ago
> According to scientists, 4 million tons of CO2 is roughly equivalent to the total annual emissions of 140 commercial planes. Stopping fossil fuel use remains far and above the most important thing we need to do.
- jfengel 2y ago
  Except according to American voters, whose top priorities are always jobs, inflation, and crime in varying orders. Climate occasionally cracks the top 10, but probably not this year.
  - knicholes 2y ago
    Why pin this on American voters? Doesn't China emit about 2x more CO2 into the atmosphere than the US?
    - __s 2y ago
      1. Many are not certain how Chinese voters impact CCP environmental policy 2. Look at per capita 3. Moving manufacturing of American goods to China can still be considered American caused emmissions, tho your stats are likely counting it as Chinese 4. The article is about the great salt lake in USA. CO2 as a global problem won't progress when everyone tries to blame everyone else 5. China is improving their efficiency. Look at electric conversion rates & cars' mpg. Americans complain about gas prices while having some of the lowest prices while driving some of the least efficient cars https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-Fuel-Economy-Standards-across-Countries_fig1_23723548 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-Fuel-Econo...
    - DonHopkins 2y ago
      Because about half of them are delusional and elect leaders who don't believe in science.
      - knicholes 2y ago
        I don't agree with your message, but I think you've identified the reasoning exactly.
    - cogman10 2y ago
      Because I don't live in China and I have no way to impact Chinese climate policy. Before my government would leverage climate trade policies it'd focus on them domestically. But beyond that, China is making WAY bigger investments into green tech than the US does. They are world leaders in battery and solar technology and production. Global transition to green energy is largely going to be thanks to Chinese investments.
  - convolvatron 2y ago
    you forgot gas prices
jokoon 2y ago
I hope the CIA will try to warn congress and the White House and be more convincing. Or maybe there are not enough benefits for the US to fight climate change? The US sees itself as a "force of good" through its influence on the world with its military. But the US is very bad about CO2, and sometimes I have the feeling that climate change will probably be the reason why the US might lose its superpower status.
- cassianoleal 2y ago
  > The US sees itself as a "force of good" through its influence on the world with its military. > But the US is very bad about CO2 You should probably drop the "but". The US seeing itself as a "force of good" doens't make it one.
  - datameta 2y ago
    I thing the wording already implied perception as opposed to reality.
    - cassianoleal 2y ago
      Yes, and then no. > But is used to connect ideas that contrast. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/but https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/but The way it's phrased puts "sees itself as a force of good" in contrast with "is bad". "Is bad" doesn't make sense to be in contrast with "sees itself as...". It's more likely that it's "good [through influence/military]" in contrast with "bad [in CO2]". Alternatively, perhaps it was meant as "(sees itself as) bad [in CO2]" but that's not much of an argument about anything.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- voisin 2y ago
  > The US sees itself as a "force of good" through its influence on the world with its military It markets itself this way both to the world (largely unconvincingly) and to its populace (largely convincingly), in order to mask the military industrial complex that funnels tax dollars and new debt dollars to a handful of corporations and their shareholders.
magneticnorth 2y ago
Why does the dry lake bed emit large amounts of CO2? I couldn’t find that explained in the article. Edit: For those curious like me, sources 1,2,3 from the original paper go into more detail about it. Original paper: https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(24)00326-9#%20 https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(24)00326-...
- mdorazio 2y ago
  Your linked paper still didn't answer the "why" for me. This one posits a clearer answer: microbial respiration in sediment as it dries out is the leading cause of CO2 flux [1]. If I understand the process, exposed lakebed leaves soil organic matter for microbes to digest and as a byproduct they output CO2. [1] https://www.ufz.de/export/data/2/265343_Masterarbeit_Lelaina_Teichert_042021.pdf https://www.ufz.de/export/data/2/265343_Masterarbeit_Lelaina...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
GeoAtreides 2y ago
And as oceans heat up, they slow down absorbing CO2, eventually stop and then start releasing the CO2 back. You know, like soda. The oceans, to date, have absorbed 1/3 of human CO2 emissions. Climate change is full of tipping points and feedback loops, many of them unmapped and unknown to us.
- goneri 2y ago
  This also leads to an decrease of the ocean pH with is a huge problem for the sea ecosystems. https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/acidification.html https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/acidification.html Edit: pH decrease, thans nwellinghoff
  - nwellinghoff 2y ago
    Decrease in ph. Lower is more acidic.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - goneri 2y ago
      Oops, thank you.
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  Please, don’t spread misinformation. The problem is already bad enough. The ocean is far from being saturated in CO2 even at the projected temperature increase. It will not release its content into the atmosphere. That’s not how this particular equilibrium works. The potential issue we are facing is not a release but the end or more likely a slow down of absorption as currents bringing water from the surface to the depth are distributed. That could lead to surface water becoming effectively saturated. This would be a big issue because the current strategy to limit overall warming is reaching net zero in 2050 and then letting the ocean socks up some of the excess CO2. From my point of view, that’s why we should be sceptical of a purely net zero based solution and need to invest heavily in carbon capture, clean abundant energy (we really need fusion more than ever) and seriously study geo-engineering based temporary solutions to grant us the time we need.
SapporoChris 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... United States: 4,595,406.7(1970),4,984,066.7(1990),5,888,498.7(2005), 4,959,631.9(2017),4,853,780.2(2022) Fossil CO2 emissions (ktCO2/year) Millions of tons is a lot, but when the overall Fossil CO2 emissions are in trillions then it isn't really where we need to focus. I can't see how they're justified in saying it is a significant contributor. There are probably plenty of reasons aside from CO2 to maintain the lake.
mrbluecoat 2y ago
Wouldn't the Salton Sea be just as concerning? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea
marvinboner 2y ago
[flagged]

44 points by rntn 2y ago

> According to scientists, 4 million tons of CO2 is roughly equivalent to the total annual emissions of 140 commercial planes. Stopping fossil fuel use remains far and above the most important thing we need to do.

jfengel 2y ago
Except according to American voters, whose top priorities are always jobs, inflation, and crime in varying orders. Climate occasionally cracks the top 10, but probably not this year.
- knicholes 2y ago
  Why pin this on American voters? Doesn't China emit about 2x more CO2 into the atmosphere than the US?
  - __s 2y ago
    1. Many are not certain how Chinese voters impact CCP environmental policy 2. Look at per capita 3. Moving manufacturing of American goods to China can still be considered American caused emmissions, tho your stats are likely counting it as Chinese 4. The article is about the great salt lake in USA. CO2 as a global problem won't progress when everyone tries to blame everyone else 5. China is improving their efficiency. Look at electric conversion rates & cars' mpg. Americans complain about gas prices while having some of the lowest prices while driving some of the least efficient cars https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-Fuel-Economy-Standards-across-Countries_fig1_23723548 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-Fuel-Econo...
  - DonHopkins 2y ago
    Because about half of them are delusional and elect leaders who don't believe in science.
    - knicholes 2y ago
      I don't agree with your message, but I think you've identified the reasoning exactly.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    Because I don't live in China and I have no way to impact Chinese climate policy. Before my government would leverage climate trade policies it'd focus on them domestically. But beyond that, China is making WAY bigger investments into green tech than the US does. They are world leaders in battery and solar technology and production. Global transition to green energy is largely going to be thanks to Chinese investments.
- convolvatron 2y ago
  you forgot gas prices

jokoon 2y ago

I hope the CIA will try to warn congress and the White House and be more convincing. Or maybe there are not enough benefits for the US to fight climate change? The US sees itself as a "force of good" through its influence on the world with its military. But the US is very bad about CO2, and sometimes I have the feeling that climate change will probably be the reason why the US might lose its superpower status.

cassianoleal 2y ago
> The US sees itself as a "force of good" through its influence on the world with its military. > But the US is very bad about CO2 You should probably drop the "but". The US seeing itself as a "force of good" doens't make it one.
- datameta 2y ago
  I thing the wording already implied perception as opposed to reality.
  - cassianoleal 2y ago
    Yes, and then no. > But is used to connect ideas that contrast. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/but https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/but The way it's phrased puts "sees itself as a force of good" in contrast with "is bad". "Is bad" doesn't make sense to be in contrast with "sees itself as...". It's more likely that it's "good [through influence/military]" in contrast with "bad [in CO2]". Alternatively, perhaps it was meant as "(sees itself as) bad [in CO2]" but that's not much of an argument about anything.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
voisin 2y ago
> The US sees itself as a "force of good" through its influence on the world with its military It markets itself this way both to the world (largely unconvincingly) and to its populace (largely convincingly), in order to mask the military industrial complex that funnels tax dollars and new debt dollars to a handful of corporations and their shareholders.

magneticnorth 2y ago

Why does the dry lake bed emit large amounts of CO2? I couldn’t find that explained in the article. Edit: For those curious like me, sources 1,2,3 from the original paper go into more detail about it. Original paper: https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(24)00326-9#%20 https://www.cell.com/one-earth/fulltext/S2590-3322(24)00326-...

mdorazio 2y ago
Your linked paper still didn't answer the "why" for me. This one posits a clearer answer: microbial respiration in sediment as it dries out is the leading cause of CO2 flux [1]. If I understand the process, exposed lakebed leaves soil organic matter for microbes to digest and as a byproduct they output CO2. [1] https://www.ufz.de/export/data/2/265343_Masterarbeit_Lelaina_Teichert_042021.pdf https://www.ufz.de/export/data/2/265343_Masterarbeit_Lelaina...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

GeoAtreides 2y ago

And as oceans heat up, they slow down absorbing CO2, eventually stop and then start releasing the CO2 back. You know, like soda. The oceans, to date, have absorbed 1/3 of human CO2 emissions. Climate change is full of tipping points and feedback loops, many of them unmapped and unknown to us.

goneri 2y ago
This also leads to an decrease of the ocean pH with is a huge problem for the sea ecosystems. https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/acidification.html https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/acidification.html Edit: pH decrease, thans nwellinghoff
- nwellinghoff 2y ago
  Decrease in ph. Lower is more acidic.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - goneri 2y ago
    Oops, thank you.
RandomThoughts3 2y ago
Please, don’t spread misinformation. The problem is already bad enough. The ocean is far from being saturated in CO2 even at the projected temperature increase. It will not release its content into the atmosphere. That’s not how this particular equilibrium works. The potential issue we are facing is not a release but the end or more likely a slow down of absorption as currents bringing water from the surface to the depth are distributed. That could lead to surface water becoming effectively saturated. This would be a big issue because the current strategy to limit overall warming is reaching net zero in 2050 and then letting the ocean socks up some of the excess CO2. From my point of view, that’s why we should be sceptical of a purely net zero based solution and need to invest heavily in carbon capture, clean abundant energy (we really need fusion more than ever) and seriously study geo-engineering based temporary solutions to grant us the time we need.

SapporoChris 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... United States: 4,595,406.7(1970),4,984,066.7(1990),5,888,498.7(2005), 4,959,631.9(2017),4,853,780.2(2022) Fossil CO2 emissions (ktCO2/year) Millions of tons is a lot, but when the overall Fossil CO2 emissions are in trillions then it isn't really where we need to focus. I can't see how they're justified in saying it is a significant contributor. There are probably plenty of reasons aside from CO2 to maintain the lake.

mrbluecoat 2y ago

Wouldn't the Salton Sea be just as concerning? [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea

marvinboner 2y ago

[flagged]