3 ms·

This a flashback to the DOS era for me, or CLI utils like 'top'. I can't quite express why, but I find it a bit ugly and vaguely annoying. Probably reminds me t

This a flashback to the DOS era for me, or CLI utils like 'top'. I can't quite express why, but I find it a bit ugly and vaguely annoying. Probably reminds me too much of unstyled spreadsheets, or maybe I've just been brainwashed by modern trends... Regardless, I guess my primary gripe with it is the cognitive overload. A bunch of numbers (stocks? not sure) and names that all look the same, sometimes with different color end digits (why is the zero gray sometimes), in a vast sea of information but no context. What is the most important item at any given time? What do I need to pay attention to? I mostly just glaze over and tune it out because there's way too much going on. I get that it's an experiment (and ultimately a preference). Just not my thing, I guess.

TehShrike 2y ago
I wonder if it would feel less annoying if the majority of the text was a bit higher contrast
- solardev 2y ago
  You can fiddle with the interface and tweak some layout parameters in the sidebar somewhat. By the time I got it to something I liked, it severely violated the spirit of the experiment, lol (was too big and sparse, with lots of padding between items – the opposite of what it was trying to show): https://share.cleanshot.com/0xD9bPcWD1CL5wDvlVhB https://share.cleanshot.com/0xD9bPcWD1CL5wDvlVhB And I still don't know how these numbers are used. I wouldn't be able to keep track of even 3-4 numbers at once, much less the dozens here.
klaussilveira 2y ago
You are thinking about this from a end-user perspective, not a power user. It's the difference between eToro and Active Trader Pro. Or Fidelity's own app and their Active Trader Pro. There's is no right and wrong, they just target different audiences with different priorities. That's why we like btop and htop, but a normal PC user wouldn't understand anything.
- gala8y 2y ago
  This complexity also shows in 3d software. I love all these UIs like 3dmax, SoftImage (!), Blender, Lightwave. Creating 3d has so many aspects to it and it shows in complexity of these UIs. Generally speaking, I much prefer being able to click one of many things shown on the screen than clicking through endless sub-menus, which was always a waste of time for me.
  - solardev 2y ago
    It's an interesting question (how much density is "right" for productivity apps). On one hand, I still hate the MS Office "ribbon" UI to this day and much prefer the denser and more compact Google Docs or even Open Office layout. On the other hand, Sketchup was hugely popular and very easy to use compared to its peers when it was released, and quickly became the de facto tool for simple free basic 3d modeling, in no small part because of easy and clean it was, I think. But they got bought out and then abandoned, I think? It doesn't have anywhere near the power of the other software anyway. IDEs are another example. VScode seems a lot cleaner and leaner than old IDEs, and Jetbrains ended up copying them too (a controversial change, of course). Photoshop is the one that always gets me. Twenty years of using it and I still can't get used to its layout. It's just so many different weird widget types mashed together in a way you don't see in any other software. I much prefer a docked toolbar like in Figma or Paint Shop Pro. I hate that I use it... I feel like a hostage every time I open it.
    - gala8y 2y ago
      > It's an interesting question (how much density is "right" for productivity apps). Between extremes of GUI presenting all functions at once and accessing all functions through memorized keyboard shortcuts, there must lay large lands of possible, experimental GUIs which unfortunately never get tested in popular software (which defaults to sub-menus + some keyboard access). I mean zoomable UIs, radial menus, 3d concepts in UIs,... - it's hard to see any of research on experimental interfaces make way into actual everyday-use apps. Every standard GUI element could be thought over. Once I worked with some standard accounting software, where I needed to select some stuff many times during the day from a dropdown. I quickly learnt how to move content from a dropdown menus into a spreadsheet with some formulas which allowed me to paste selection I needed back into these dropdowns 10 times faster. When I was leaving this temp gig I showed this solution to some guy in accounting, whose life was basically opening these dropdowns all day long. Regardless that he was really mean guy, I showed him the trick. He almost had tears in his eyes seeing it. I am not counting muscles strain avoided... Multiply by thousands of users everyday... Not to mention trying to integrate interoperability of apps within the OS (e.g. to have one program to check for spelling in all apps, across the OS - I cant remember name of one such fine try (ages before)). As per PS, have you ever tried to really personalize PS UI to your liking? I remember friends getting really opinionated on positioning all those menus perfectly for themselves (and for a reason). Personally I feel like PS is very intuitive for me, whereas in similar apps I cant do simple things, but it's probably because I was kindly shown around.

TehShrike 2y ago

I wonder if it would feel less annoying if the majority of the text was a bit higher contrast

solardev 2y ago
You can fiddle with the interface and tweak some layout parameters in the sidebar somewhat. By the time I got it to something I liked, it severely violated the spirit of the experiment, lol (was too big and sparse, with lots of padding between items – the opposite of what it was trying to show): https://share.cleanshot.com/0xD9bPcWD1CL5wDvlVhB https://share.cleanshot.com/0xD9bPcWD1CL5wDvlVhB And I still don't know how these numbers are used. I wouldn't be able to keep track of even 3-4 numbers at once, much less the dozens here.

klaussilveira 2y ago

You are thinking about this from a end-user perspective, not a power user. It's the difference between eToro and Active Trader Pro. Or Fidelity's own app and their Active Trader Pro. There's is no right and wrong, they just target different audiences with different priorities. That's why we like btop and htop, but a normal PC user wouldn't understand anything.

gala8y 2y ago
This complexity also shows in 3d software. I love all these UIs like 3dmax, SoftImage (!), Blender, Lightwave. Creating 3d has so many aspects to it and it shows in complexity of these UIs. Generally speaking, I much prefer being able to click one of many things shown on the screen than clicking through endless sub-menus, which was always a waste of time for me.
- solardev 2y ago
  It's an interesting question (how much density is "right" for productivity apps). On one hand, I still hate the MS Office "ribbon" UI to this day and much prefer the denser and more compact Google Docs or even Open Office layout. On the other hand, Sketchup was hugely popular and very easy to use compared to its peers when it was released, and quickly became the de facto tool for simple free basic 3d modeling, in no small part because of easy and clean it was, I think. But they got bought out and then abandoned, I think? It doesn't have anywhere near the power of the other software anyway. IDEs are another example. VScode seems a lot cleaner and leaner than old IDEs, and Jetbrains ended up copying them too (a controversial change, of course). Photoshop is the one that always gets me. Twenty years of using it and I still can't get used to its layout. It's just so many different weird widget types mashed together in a way you don't see in any other software. I much prefer a docked toolbar like in Figma or Paint Shop Pro. I hate that I use it... I feel like a hostage every time I open it.
  - gala8y 2y ago
    > It's an interesting question (how much density is "right" for productivity apps). Between extremes of GUI presenting all functions at once and accessing all functions through memorized keyboard shortcuts, there must lay large lands of possible, experimental GUIs which unfortunately never get tested in popular software (which defaults to sub-menus + some keyboard access). I mean zoomable UIs, radial menus, 3d concepts in UIs,... - it's hard to see any of research on experimental interfaces make way into actual everyday-use apps. Every standard GUI element could be thought over. Once I worked with some standard accounting software, where I needed to select some stuff many times during the day from a dropdown. I quickly learnt how to move content from a dropdown menus into a spreadsheet with some formulas which allowed me to paste selection I needed back into these dropdowns 10 times faster. When I was leaving this temp gig I showed this solution to some guy in accounting, whose life was basically opening these dropdowns all day long. Regardless that he was really mean guy, I showed him the trick. He almost had tears in his eyes seeing it. I am not counting muscles strain avoided... Multiply by thousands of users everyday... Not to mention trying to integrate interoperability of apps within the OS (e.g. to have one program to check for spelling in all apps, across the OS - I cant remember name of one such fine try (ages before)). As per PS, have you ever tried to really personalize PS UI to your liking? I remember friends getting really opinionated on positioning all those menus perfectly for themselves (and for a reason). Personally I feel like PS is very intuitive for me, whereas in similar apps I cant do simple things, but it's probably because I was kindly shown around.