5 ms·

Canadian women's soccer team loses six points, coach banned over drone scandal

21 points by tagyro 2y ago

Der_Einzige 2y ago
[flagged]
- tokai 2y ago
  >Japanese Olympian whose 19 got disqualified This is not true. It has nothing to do with France and is a wholly internal issue for Japan Gymnastics Association.
corey_moncure 2y ago
>New Zealand had complained that Canadian staff flew drones over their training sessions before their opening fixture at the Olympics What's the problem with this? I don't get it. Did the rules say no drones over training sessions or something?
- hughes 2y ago
  Using surveillance equipment to gather information on your opponents is certainly at least violating the spirit of the games. As a Canadian I'm glad this team is seeing consequences.
  - corey_moncure 2y ago
    I understand now. It wasn't immediately clear to me from the pronouns that the Canadian team was running drones over someone ELSE's training session.
- klyrs 2y ago
  Spying on the competition is unsporting, this isn't something new. Just new tech being used to violate old social norms.
- hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
  TBH I don't get that either. I mean, wouldn't you want to know how the opponent is going to play? And what if they just send someone to watch? But hey, I'm probably going to be downvoted for spirit of the games. But to be, wanting to win (as long as not offending the law) is the most important part of the spirit.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    Spying on other teams regardless of the technology has long been regarded as unsportsmanlike conduct, across all sports. This is nothing new and if anything your attitude to win using spying is against the norms.
    - hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
      I mean, they do watch replays and do data analysis too, right? Sure there is a difference, but to me, it's not a whole lot of difference. Edit: I'm sure they don't refrain from watching the opponents playing against other teams too...
      - matsemann 2y ago
        It's a difference seeing what lineup they prepare for the match against you and specifically prepare for that, preparing for set pieces they're practicing to use against you, seeing where they're practicing to place their next penalty kick etc. - vs just general prep based on public information.
      - avar 2y ago
        The difference is that this was during practice sessions. The "unsportsmanlike" aspects isn't about the difference in intelligence gathered, but avoiding the need for every team to run counter-surveillance operations.
        vundercind 2y ago
        That’s the trouble—it’s zero-sum waste that becomes mandatory if it’s permitted.
- patall 2y ago
  Among other things, the entire olympic area is a no-fly-zone (for obvious reasons) and they have thus commited a crime under french law. In other articles it mentions that the pilot faces 8 months in prison. Noone wants to set precedence of allowing/enabling national rule braking.
jmclnx 2y ago
And this is a symptom of why I am no longer interested in the Olympics. I mainly lost interest when they started allowing professional athletes to compete. Plus now, based upon various news items, the IOC is riff with graft and bribery. In the old days, the Olympics was a venue were aspiring athletes got to get a second chance of turning pro, or at the very least a way for them to get recognition for their hard work. Now in many cases, it is now a bunch of multi-millionaires feeding their somewhat narcissistic drives. I won't even go into my belief kids under 18 should not compete in the Olympics.
- chidog12 2y ago
  "In the old days, the Olympics was a venue were aspiring athletes got to get a second chance of turning pro, or at the very least a way for them to get recognition for their hard work. Now in many cases, it is now a bunch of multi-millionaires feeding their somewhat narcissistic drives." This entire sentence is ridiculous and inaccurate.
  - blueflow 2y ago
    What is inaccurate about it
    - hluska 2y ago
      1.) The Olympics have never been a place for a second chance. There are miracles of course and occasionally some low ranked athletes perform well. But for the most part, it’s the best of the best. 2.) Relatively few Olympic sports even have professional leagues that we would think of as professional leagues. 3.) A small number of stars make money. The vast majority make absolutely no money. Instead of trusting a snarky person on the internet, here is a quote from the CEO of the USATF: “Most of our [athletes] make less than $50,000 a year, and for many, much less than that” Or consider that in 2016, ~ 140 athletes had to resort to GoFundMe to pay their costs to attend the Olympics. 4.) They talk about letting professionals in like it was a simple thing. Professionals in the Olympics have been a problem since 1912 when Jim Thorpe had his medals in decathlon and pentathlon stripped because he had played professional baseball. 5.) The way they talk about IOC corruption implies they must have stopped watching the Olympics in 1920. Budapest won the games that year but the France dominated IOC stripped them of it (they had been enemies in World War One) and gave it to Brussels. That’s a start. I can continue if needed.
clwg 2y ago
As a Canadian, this is utterly embarrassing. I can't believe it was happening for years, even at the under-16 level, and was common knowledge. I think they should withdraw from the Olympics voluntarily. I get that it sucks for the athletes, but at this point, the best thing they could do is set an example for younger kids. I've seen high school teams get booted from tournaments for less.
- janice1999 2y ago
  As embarrassing and disappointing as it must be for Canadians, the fact their team put drone operation skills in a job advertisement is honestly hilarious.
  - hluska 2y ago
    It’s honestly not. Drones are a very common part of soccer - they are a way for staff to see what is happening from above. They’re only an issue when you use them to spy on your opponents.
- boomboomsubban 2y ago
  I wonder if they're allowed to withdraw without consequence. I can't imagine the IOC would be thrilled about two matches being canceled, particularly one against France which will probably see over ten thousand fans. And though your point of setting an example is completely fair, I can easily imagine the IOC saying they refused to play as they couldn't win anyway.
- serial_dev 2y ago
  Not a football surgeon myself, but with 6 point deduction they are toast anyway aren't they?
quercusa 2y ago
Canada were deducted six points seems odd in US English. Are there other flavo(u)rs where that wouldn't seem weird?
- fragmede 2y ago
  You mean like possibly that other place which is well known for various reasons where they speak English known as England?
- throaway727 2y ago
  Canada is a plural noun here, as it refers to the collective teammates, not the nation-state.
  - quercusa 2y ago
    Sorry - not the plural sense, the use of "deducted" .
    - dogmatism 2y ago
      I agree. The points were deducted from the team's total. The team itself was not deducted (though I guess you could argue without the points, the team was deducted from the tournament, lol)
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Deduct is correct verb here. Penalize might work, but deduct is fine. As there was removal of points from total as an "addition". Not removal as removing some score like points gained from winning a game.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mikemitchelldev 2y ago
Was it considered cheating that the English goalie had statistics about penalty kick preferences of opposing players written on his water bottle (and concealed under a towel) in the semi-finals for the Euros?
- tomjakubowski 2y ago
  no - the key difference is those penalty kick stats are derived from watching the games, which are public, not from surreptitious surveillance of private practice sessions
  - mikemitchelldev 2y ago
    but then why hide it under the bottle?
    - jelkand 2y ago
      It’s not hidden. It’s just on the bottle because it’s convenient for a keeper to reference.
      - mikemitchelldev 2y ago
        The bottle was wrapped in a towel.
        boomboomsubban 2y ago
        I have no idea what the Euros rules are, but this could have been him wanting to keep all his stuff together without the paper blowing away.
        Shadowed_ 2y ago
        I can't say for them, but towel is good heat insulator and can keep bottle content cold. I use it often for that reason (either towel or other clothes that's already in backpack).
pupppet 2y ago
Did the Canadian players know the staff were doing this?
- benfortuna 2y ago
  > "We feel terrible for the athletes on the Canadian Women's Olympic soccer team who as far as we understand played no role in this matter," said David Shoemaker, CEO and Secretary General of the Canadian Olympic Committee.

21 points by tagyro 2y ago

Der_Einzige 2y ago

[flagged]

tokai 2y ago
>Japanese Olympian whose 19 got disqualified This is not true. It has nothing to do with France and is a wholly internal issue for Japan Gymnastics Association.

corey_moncure 2y ago

>New Zealand had complained that Canadian staff flew drones over their training sessions before their opening fixture at the Olympics What's the problem with this? I don't get it. Did the rules say no drones over training sessions or something?

hughes 2y ago
Using surveillance equipment to gather information on your opponents is certainly at least violating the spirit of the games. As a Canadian I'm glad this team is seeing consequences.
- corey_moncure 2y ago
  I understand now. It wasn't immediately clear to me from the pronouns that the Canadian team was running drones over someone ELSE's training session.
klyrs 2y ago
Spying on the competition is unsporting, this isn't something new. Just new tech being used to violate old social norms.
hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
TBH I don't get that either. I mean, wouldn't you want to know how the opponent is going to play? And what if they just send someone to watch? But hey, I'm probably going to be downvoted for spirit of the games. But to be, wanting to win (as long as not offending the law) is the most important part of the spirit.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  Spying on other teams regardless of the technology has long been regarded as unsportsmanlike conduct, across all sports. This is nothing new and if anything your attitude to win using spying is against the norms.
  - hnthrowaway0315 2y ago
    I mean, they do watch replays and do data analysis too, right? Sure there is a difference, but to me, it's not a whole lot of difference. Edit: I'm sure they don't refrain from watching the opponents playing against other teams too...
    - matsemann 2y ago
      It's a difference seeing what lineup they prepare for the match against you and specifically prepare for that, preparing for set pieces they're practicing to use against you, seeing where they're practicing to place their next penalty kick etc. - vs just general prep based on public information.
    - avar 2y ago
      The difference is that this was during practice sessions. The "unsportsmanlike" aspects isn't about the difference in intelligence gathered, but avoiding the need for every team to run counter-surveillance operations.
      - vundercind 2y ago
        That’s the trouble—it’s zero-sum waste that becomes mandatory if it’s permitted.
patall 2y ago
Among other things, the entire olympic area is a no-fly-zone (for obvious reasons) and they have thus commited a crime under french law. In other articles it mentions that the pilot faces 8 months in prison. Noone wants to set precedence of allowing/enabling national rule braking.

jmclnx 2y ago

And this is a symptom of why I am no longer interested in the Olympics. I mainly lost interest when they started allowing professional athletes to compete. Plus now, based upon various news items, the IOC is riff with graft and bribery. In the old days, the Olympics was a venue were aspiring athletes got to get a second chance of turning pro, or at the very least a way for them to get recognition for their hard work. Now in many cases, it is now a bunch of multi-millionaires feeding their somewhat narcissistic drives. I won't even go into my belief kids under 18 should not compete in the Olympics.

chidog12 2y ago
"In the old days, the Olympics was a venue were aspiring athletes got to get a second chance of turning pro, or at the very least a way for them to get recognition for their hard work. Now in many cases, it is now a bunch of multi-millionaires feeding their somewhat narcissistic drives." This entire sentence is ridiculous and inaccurate.
- blueflow 2y ago
  What is inaccurate about it
  - hluska 2y ago
    1.) The Olympics have never been a place for a second chance. There are miracles of course and occasionally some low ranked athletes perform well. But for the most part, it’s the best of the best. 2.) Relatively few Olympic sports even have professional leagues that we would think of as professional leagues. 3.) A small number of stars make money. The vast majority make absolutely no money. Instead of trusting a snarky person on the internet, here is a quote from the CEO of the USATF: “Most of our [athletes] make less than $50,000 a year, and for many, much less than that” Or consider that in 2016, ~ 140 athletes had to resort to GoFundMe to pay their costs to attend the Olympics. 4.) They talk about letting professionals in like it was a simple thing. Professionals in the Olympics have been a problem since 1912 when Jim Thorpe had his medals in decathlon and pentathlon stripped because he had played professional baseball. 5.) The way they talk about IOC corruption implies they must have stopped watching the Olympics in 1920. Budapest won the games that year but the France dominated IOC stripped them of it (they had been enemies in World War One) and gave it to Brussels. That’s a start. I can continue if needed.

clwg 2y ago

As a Canadian, this is utterly embarrassing. I can't believe it was happening for years, even at the under-16 level, and was common knowledge. I think they should withdraw from the Olympics voluntarily. I get that it sucks for the athletes, but at this point, the best thing they could do is set an example for younger kids. I've seen high school teams get booted from tournaments for less.

janice1999 2y ago
As embarrassing and disappointing as it must be for Canadians, the fact their team put drone operation skills in a job advertisement is honestly hilarious.
- hluska 2y ago
  It’s honestly not. Drones are a very common part of soccer - they are a way for staff to see what is happening from above. They’re only an issue when you use them to spy on your opponents.
boomboomsubban 2y ago
I wonder if they're allowed to withdraw without consequence. I can't imagine the IOC would be thrilled about two matches being canceled, particularly one against France which will probably see over ten thousand fans. And though your point of setting an example is completely fair, I can easily imagine the IOC saying they refused to play as they couldn't win anyway.
serial_dev 2y ago
Not a football surgeon myself, but with 6 point deduction they are toast anyway aren't they?

quercusa 2y ago

Canada were deducted six points seems odd in US English. Are there other flavo(u)rs where that wouldn't seem weird?

fragmede 2y ago
You mean like possibly that other place which is well known for various reasons where they speak English known as England?
throaway727 2y ago
Canada is a plural noun here, as it refers to the collective teammates, not the nation-state.
- quercusa 2y ago
  Sorry - not the plural sense, the use of "deducted" .
  - dogmatism 2y ago
    I agree. The points were deducted from the team's total. The team itself was not deducted (though I guess you could argue without the points, the team was deducted from the tournament, lol)
Ekaros 2y ago
Deduct is correct verb here. Penalize might work, but deduct is fine. As there was removal of points from total as an "addition". Not removal as removing some score like points gained from winning a game.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

mikemitchelldev 2y ago

Was it considered cheating that the English goalie had statistics about penalty kick preferences of opposing players written on his water bottle (and concealed under a towel) in the semi-finals for the Euros?

tomjakubowski 2y ago
no - the key difference is those penalty kick stats are derived from watching the games, which are public, not from surreptitious surveillance of private practice sessions
- mikemitchelldev 2y ago
  but then why hide it under the bottle?
  - jelkand 2y ago
    It’s not hidden. It’s just on the bottle because it’s convenient for a keeper to reference.
    - mikemitchelldev 2y ago
      The bottle was wrapped in a towel.
      - boomboomsubban 2y ago
        I have no idea what the Euros rules are, but this could have been him wanting to keep all his stuff together without the paper blowing away.
      - Shadowed_ 2y ago
        I can't say for them, but towel is good heat insulator and can keep bottle content cold. I use it often for that reason (either towel or other clothes that's already in backpack).

pupppet 2y ago

Did the Canadian players know the staff were doing this?

benfortuna 2y ago
> "We feel terrible for the athletes on the Canadian Women's Olympic soccer team who as far as we understand played no role in this matter," said David Shoemaker, CEO and Secretary General of the Canadian Olympic Committee.