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Apple makes a lot of profit because their products provide a lot of value. Do you think that if you compare the profit that Apple makes to the value that that

Apple makes a lot of profit because their products provide a lot of value. Do you think that if you compare the profit that Apple makes to the value that that users get that Apple has the larger share of it? To a disturbing degree?

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Certainly, if a company’s profits are the size of a small country’s GDP, I find that disturbing regardless of the value they’re delivering. Value is the experience and consumer excess, profits are fiat. Could that same value be delivered with compressed profits leading to greater consumer excess? I believe so. Not all profits are earned, some are inherent once an org achieves a certain maturity or industry position. Visa and Mastercard skimming a non insignificant amount off of US GDP, for example. Is that value? https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/LAZONICK_William_Profits-without-Prosperity-20140406.pdf https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/LAZONICK_Willia... (“Profits Without Prosperity: How Stock Buybacks Manipulate the Market, and Leave Most Americans Worse Off”)
- maxerickson 2y ago
  You didn't answer the first question about whether you think consumers or Apple have the larger share.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    I thought my comment was clear, I will attempt to be more explicit: I am of the opinion that Apple’s profits are excessive, regardless of the consumer value delivered. I respect that others may have opposing views that profits should have no limits as long as value is delivered.
    - bluecalm 2y ago
      Well if EU politicians think Apple's profits are excessive what about introducing laws to foster some competition? You can complain about other countries running circles around you all you want but at the end of the day if you can't make a phone, piece of software or a CPU you will be at the mercy of those who can. The way to reduce "excessive profits" is to make it easier to start businesses which could provide the "overpriced" goods and services cheaper.
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Easier to reduce their size with regulation versus believing a free market that isn’t truly free will suddenly whisk competition into the space. This is why China gives their domestic companies “unfair” advantages, because the free market is an illusion. It’s only unfair if you believe there is a “free market” or the market is fair, which it is not. It is easy to forget that the economic system of fiat and capital is a shared delusion, agreed upon rules that can change when needed. The intent is to encourage outcomes, not to be the primary function.
        bluecalm 2y ago
        Whatever your views on free market if you want goods cheaper someone needs to make them cheaper. Splitting up Apple won't result in that. You still need someone else to make phones.
layer8 2y ago
> Apple makes a lot of profit because their products provide a lot of value. That is a non-sequitur.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Certainly, if a company’s profits are the size of a small country’s GDP, I find that disturbing regardless of the value they’re delivering. Value is the experience and consumer excess, profits are fiat. Could that same value be delivered with compressed profits leading to greater consumer excess? I believe so. Not all profits are earned, some are inherent once an org achieves a certain maturity or industry position. Visa and Mastercard skimming a non insignificant amount off of US GDP, for example. Is that value? https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/LAZONICK_William_Profits-without-Prosperity-20140406.pdf https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/LAZONICK_Willia... (“Profits Without Prosperity: How Stock Buybacks Manipulate the Market, and Leave Most Americans Worse Off”)

maxerickson 2y ago
You didn't answer the first question about whether you think consumers or Apple have the larger share.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  I thought my comment was clear, I will attempt to be more explicit: I am of the opinion that Apple’s profits are excessive, regardless of the consumer value delivered. I respect that others may have opposing views that profits should have no limits as long as value is delivered.
  - bluecalm 2y ago
    Well if EU politicians think Apple's profits are excessive what about introducing laws to foster some competition? You can complain about other countries running circles around you all you want but at the end of the day if you can't make a phone, piece of software or a CPU you will be at the mercy of those who can. The way to reduce "excessive profits" is to make it easier to start businesses which could provide the "overpriced" goods and services cheaper.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Easier to reduce their size with regulation versus believing a free market that isn’t truly free will suddenly whisk competition into the space. This is why China gives their domestic companies “unfair” advantages, because the free market is an illusion. It’s only unfair if you believe there is a “free market” or the market is fair, which it is not. It is easy to forget that the economic system of fiat and capital is a shared delusion, agreed upon rules that can change when needed. The intent is to encourage outcomes, not to be the primary function.
      - bluecalm 2y ago
        Whatever your views on free market if you want goods cheaper someone needs to make them cheaper. Splitting up Apple won't result in that. You still need someone else to make phones.

layer8 2y ago

> Apple makes a lot of profit because their products provide a lot of value. That is a non-sequitur.