3 ms·

What's the reason that, with office occupancies down in so many places, there isn't a big push for conversion of commercial zoning to residential multi-family?

What's the reason that, with office occupancies down in so many places, there isn't a big push for conversion of commercial zoning to residential multi-family? Incentive programs to reward converting vacant spaces? Penalty taxes for holding vacant office space instead of selling it to someone who will figure out something to do with it?

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
Because most skyscrapers can't be converted to housing efficiently. It would cost more to convert them then you could sell the units for. The people who own those buildings are desperate to fill them. They'd convert if it made sense. They aren't part of some evil cabal to have commercial buildings sit empty to push up residential property prices.
- leehuffman 2y ago
  Why is everyone (ok, fine, mostly economics & tech people) convinced this is such a wildly viable slam dunk of an idea? Have y'all ever opened up a wall before and seen the electrical, plumbing, etc mechanical bits that make up a home? Any idea of what it'd cost to chop up that office space and feed every individual piece the necessary bits? It's outrageous that we're even talking about this idea still. It'd require wildddddd tax advantages & federal spends in order to execute on it in any sense of the overarching idea.
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    Houses are like a million dollars. Some plumbing is maybe 10k?
    - ericd 2y ago
      Have you talked with contractors recently? It costs a lot more than you seem to think it does.
    - nradov 2y ago
      Are you joking? Regular houses are nowhere near a million dollars in most of the country.
      - mdp2021 2y ago
        But where do you need to live? 237 cities does not mean "very special places". See (hours fresh article): > A Thursday report from Zillow indicates that a typical starter home is now worth $1 million or more in 237 cities, up from 84 cities in 2019, underscoring America’s ongoing home affordability crisis https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/26/business/more-starter-homes-cost-one-million-dollars https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/26/business/more-starter-hom...
        nradov 2y ago
        You don't "need" to live anywhere in particular. Many of those 237 cities are part of larger high-cost metro areas. Move to the Columbus, OH area (or something like that). There are plenty of affordable homes for sale there. Or buy cheap vacant land and build whatever you want. The unemployment rate is low so it's not hard to find a job. Some people are just too picky about location and only want to complain or find excuses instead of doing something to improve their situation.
      - HPsquared 2y ago
        I'm talking about the places with housing shortages where it might make sense to spend money converting an office block.
panick21_ 2y ago
> What's the reason that, with office occupancies down in so many places, there isn't a big push for conversion of commercial zoning to residential multi-family? Zoning simply doesn't allow for that in the overwhelming majority of places. > Incentive programs to reward converting vacant spaces? How about making it legal first? > Penalty taxes for holding vacant office space instead of selling it to someone who will figure out something to do with it? Or just have land value taxation. All of those things simply miss the underlying structural issues. We know the structural issue. People need to stop thinking in these 'could we do this little micro adjustment, or this little micro adjustment' as if that solves anything. We know how to solve this, its not really up for debate. Endlessly arguing about micro-optimization. Its like in IT when people argue about some minor optimization in the compiler when their are 100x more blocked by IO.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

Because most skyscrapers can't be converted to housing efficiently. It would cost more to convert them then you could sell the units for. The people who own those buildings are desperate to fill them. They'd convert if it made sense. They aren't part of some evil cabal to have commercial buildings sit empty to push up residential property prices.

leehuffman 2y ago
Why is everyone (ok, fine, mostly economics & tech people) convinced this is such a wildly viable slam dunk of an idea? Have y'all ever opened up a wall before and seen the electrical, plumbing, etc mechanical bits that make up a home? Any idea of what it'd cost to chop up that office space and feed every individual piece the necessary bits? It's outrageous that we're even talking about this idea still. It'd require wildddddd tax advantages & federal spends in order to execute on it in any sense of the overarching idea.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Houses are like a million dollars. Some plumbing is maybe 10k?
  - ericd 2y ago
    Have you talked with contractors recently? It costs a lot more than you seem to think it does.
  - nradov 2y ago
    Are you joking? Regular houses are nowhere near a million dollars in most of the country.
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      But where do you need to live? 237 cities does not mean "very special places". See (hours fresh article): > A Thursday report from Zillow indicates that a typical starter home is now worth $1 million or more in 237 cities, up from 84 cities in 2019, underscoring America’s ongoing home affordability crisis https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/26/business/more-starter-homes-cost-one-million-dollars https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/26/business/more-starter-hom...
      - nradov 2y ago
        You don't "need" to live anywhere in particular. Many of those 237 cities are part of larger high-cost metro areas. Move to the Columbus, OH area (or something like that). There are plenty of affordable homes for sale there. Or buy cheap vacant land and build whatever you want. The unemployment rate is low so it's not hard to find a job. Some people are just too picky about location and only want to complain or find excuses instead of doing something to improve their situation.
    - HPsquared 2y ago
      I'm talking about the places with housing shortages where it might make sense to spend money converting an office block.

panick21_ 2y ago

> What's the reason that, with office occupancies down in so many places, there isn't a big push for conversion of commercial zoning to residential multi-family? Zoning simply doesn't allow for that in the overwhelming majority of places. > Incentive programs to reward converting vacant spaces? How about making it legal first? > Penalty taxes for holding vacant office space instead of selling it to someone who will figure out something to do with it? Or just have land value taxation. All of those things simply miss the underlying structural issues. We know the structural issue. People need to stop thinking in these 'could we do this little micro adjustment, or this little micro adjustment' as if that solves anything. We know how to solve this, its not really up for debate. Endlessly arguing about micro-optimization. Its like in IT when people argue about some minor optimization in the compiler when their are 100x more blocked by IO.