5 ms·

>In a very real sense, the EU has ruled that Meta’s core business model is illegal. Is this actually bad?

by 2muchcoffeeman 2y ago

echelon 2y ago
You're free to not be a user, but millions of other people want it.
- ktosobcy 2y ago
  BS. Lot's of companies / entities moved there because of said "millions" so you are unwillingly forced to use them as a mean of contact. And sadly open alternatives are blocked/unavailable...
  - dingnuts 2y ago
    you know it's possible to get through life without either Facebook or a Facebook alternative, right? I closed my account ten years ago, and I don't have an alternative. After the withdrawal period I stopped caring. My loved ones send me text messages of their kids. Exactly what is the point of Facebook?
    - bamboozled 2y ago
      He means the network effects of it. Facebook has locked people in via Facebook groups, Instagram messenger and such. So many people are in it’s if you don’t have it, it’s hard to be part of certain communities. I deleted my Facebook like ten years ago, I missed out on a a LOT of party invites.
      - dingnuts 2y ago
        people just text me to invite me to things. I don't want to be invited to parties where someone just invites everyone they know on Facebook. if they want me there, they can ask me directly. My social life has not significantly changed since I quit Facebook. if you have good friends, they will find you. if you don't.. why do you care about losing them?
        bamboozled 2y ago
        Popular kids don’t care about that.
        merrywhether 2y ago
        That’s a pretty glib stance. Plenty of people have difficulty finding a friend group and not everyone can be an island until they do (see the loneliness epidemic). Perhaps consider that there are other people with different life situations than yours for whom demanding individualized treatment does not work, and they may have much less choice about what technologies they have to use as a result.
    - sensanaty 2y ago
      My sister has kids, and their school exclusively uses whatsapp to broadcast events and other things happening in the school, despite repeated complaints from many parents. There's millions of little things like this out there. Many small businesses like repairmen or such only do Whatsapp. It's quite literally unavoidable in some countries.
      - dingnuts 2y ago
        Whatsapp is not Facebook, and it's not social media. It's a messaging application. Different thing. I quit Facebook -- I didn't exit every messaging platform. Yes, if you eschew every messaging platform, nobody can reach you. That's obviously correct. However, nothing I use could be called a Facebook replacement, either. WhatsApp isn't a Facebook replacement.
      - fallingknife 2y ago
        Sorry, this is just how technology works. There is going to be a way that the vast majority of people want to communicate and if you don't want to use it, it's going to be a pain in the ass for you. This is always going to be the case, and nobody is under any obligation to accommodate you. If you didn't want to have a home phone in the 90s it would have been the same thing.
        ktosobcy 2y ago
        Of course but the argument was: "You're free to not be a user, but millions of other people want it.". So the notion that you have complete freedom is somewhat false…
        fallingknife 2y ago
        Who is talking about complete freedom? Nobody who lives in any human society will ever have that.
        account42 2y ago
        So? Just because there are reasons to compromise our freedoms doesn't mean we should stop asking which compromises are worth it and saying no to those that aren't.
    - ktosobcy 2y ago
      I don't use Facebook but for example KLM/AF at least 5-6 years ago pushed hard "means of contact" as "talk to us at whatsapp/facebook". And they weren't the only one. And the track of thinking was probably "If everyone/millions use it then let's move away from this old pesky email"... There are groups/communities (real ones, for example building or school) that settled on WA/FB group so while you are not necessarily forced to if you don't there is a high chance that you will miss some crucial info… I don't use it in any manner for personal communication though…
    - account42 2y ago
      Ok, I also live without a FB account. But I don't go around pretending that that doesn't cut me out of social contacts. Not everyone will be as accomodating as your friends and relatives.
- tomjen3 2y ago
  Possibly. Facebook has strong network effects. It is possible that nobody actually wants to be on Facebook.
lolinder 2y ago
No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU. The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that, but EU citizens on average probably won't be.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU More pointedly, that they can't be built in or run from the EU.
  - account42 2y ago
    ... and can't do business in the EU.
- ktosobcy 2y ago
  > No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU. I wouldn't mind if FB left...
  - lolinder 2y ago
    That's why I said this: > The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that
  - uncanneyvalley 2y ago
    WhatsApp though?
    - madmask 2y ago
      Telegram is basically the same
    - ktosobcy 2y ago
      There is signal/telegram/line/whatever. Though FB should have never been allowed to buy WhatsApp and Instagram... (same for Google buying YouTube…) Besides void would be filled sooner or later with something, hopefully something interoperable (XMPP maybe?)
Zpalmtree 2y ago
yes, arbitrarily killing business people like is bad

>In a very real sense, the EU has ruled that Meta’s core business model is illegal. Is this actually bad?

echelon 2y ago

You're free to not be a user, but millions of other people want it.

ktosobcy 2y ago
BS. Lot's of companies / entities moved there because of said "millions" so you are unwillingly forced to use them as a mean of contact. And sadly open alternatives are blocked/unavailable...
- dingnuts 2y ago
  you know it's possible to get through life without either Facebook or a Facebook alternative, right? I closed my account ten years ago, and I don't have an alternative. After the withdrawal period I stopped caring. My loved ones send me text messages of their kids. Exactly what is the point of Facebook?
  - bamboozled 2y ago
    He means the network effects of it. Facebook has locked people in via Facebook groups, Instagram messenger and such. So many people are in it’s if you don’t have it, it’s hard to be part of certain communities. I deleted my Facebook like ten years ago, I missed out on a a LOT of party invites.
    - dingnuts 2y ago
      people just text me to invite me to things. I don't want to be invited to parties where someone just invites everyone they know on Facebook. if they want me there, they can ask me directly. My social life has not significantly changed since I quit Facebook. if you have good friends, they will find you. if you don't.. why do you care about losing them?
      - bamboozled 2y ago
        Popular kids don’t care about that.
      - merrywhether 2y ago
        That’s a pretty glib stance. Plenty of people have difficulty finding a friend group and not everyone can be an island until they do (see the loneliness epidemic). Perhaps consider that there are other people with different life situations than yours for whom demanding individualized treatment does not work, and they may have much less choice about what technologies they have to use as a result.
  - sensanaty 2y ago
    My sister has kids, and their school exclusively uses whatsapp to broadcast events and other things happening in the school, despite repeated complaints from many parents. There's millions of little things like this out there. Many small businesses like repairmen or such only do Whatsapp. It's quite literally unavoidable in some countries.
    - dingnuts 2y ago
      Whatsapp is not Facebook, and it's not social media. It's a messaging application. Different thing. I quit Facebook -- I didn't exit every messaging platform. Yes, if you eschew every messaging platform, nobody can reach you. That's obviously correct. However, nothing I use could be called a Facebook replacement, either. WhatsApp isn't a Facebook replacement.
    - fallingknife 2y ago
      Sorry, this is just how technology works. There is going to be a way that the vast majority of people want to communicate and if you don't want to use it, it's going to be a pain in the ass for you. This is always going to be the case, and nobody is under any obligation to accommodate you. If you didn't want to have a home phone in the 90s it would have been the same thing.
      - ktosobcy 2y ago
        Of course but the argument was: "You're free to not be a user, but millions of other people want it.". So the notion that you have complete freedom is somewhat false…
        fallingknife 2y ago
        Who is talking about complete freedom? Nobody who lives in any human society will ever have that.
        account42 2y ago
        So? Just because there are reasons to compromise our freedoms doesn't mean we should stop asking which compromises are worth it and saying no to those that aren't.
  - ktosobcy 2y ago
    I don't use Facebook but for example KLM/AF at least 5-6 years ago pushed hard "means of contact" as "talk to us at whatsapp/facebook". And they weren't the only one. And the track of thinking was probably "If everyone/millions use it then let's move away from this old pesky email"... There are groups/communities (real ones, for example building or school) that settled on WA/FB group so while you are not necessarily forced to if you don't there is a high chance that you will miss some crucial info… I don't use it in any manner for personal communication though…
  - account42 2y ago
    Ok, I also live without a FB account. But I don't go around pretending that that doesn't cut me out of social contacts. Not everyone will be as accomodating as your friends and relatives.
tomjen3 2y ago
Possibly. Facebook has strong network effects. It is possible that nobody actually wants to be on Facebook.

lolinder 2y ago

No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU. The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that, but EU citizens on average probably won't be.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU More pointedly, that they can't be built in or run from the EU.
- account42 2y ago
  ... and can't do business in the EU.
ktosobcy 2y ago
> No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU. I wouldn't mind if FB left...
- lolinder 2y ago
  That's why I said this: > The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that
- uncanneyvalley 2y ago
  WhatsApp though?
  - madmask 2y ago
    Telegram is basically the same
  - ktosobcy 2y ago
    There is signal/telegram/line/whatever. Though FB should have never been allowed to buy WhatsApp and Instagram... (same for Google buying YouTube…) Besides void would be filled sooner or later with something, hopefully something interoperable (XMPP maybe?)

Zpalmtree 2y ago

yes, arbitrarily killing business people like is bad