5 ms·

When to kill your startup

146 points by ryancarson 14y ago

lcusack 14y ago
How about a blog post on why Ryan Carson consistently writes the best blog posts?
- ryancarson 14y ago
  That's too kind, but thank you.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- kloncks 14y ago
  Picks amazing hats as well.
porter 14y ago
Great post. I'd love to hear about the other failed startup.
- ryancarson 14y ago
  I'll get there :)
larrys 14y ago
"2 - Hire a good salesperson" - "I couldn’t afford #2 " Why not partner with a good salesperson someone who isn't afraid to pick up the phone and make sales calls?
- ryancarson 14y ago
  I didn't think of that option, to be frank. It's amazing how much you learn over the years, simply by screwing up and trying again.
- rgraham 14y ago
  I'm working on a book that helps entrepreneurs pick up the phone. It has been something I've had success with and I think it is tremendously under developed in our circles. Good preparation, targeting, and some experience can help you handle rejection and increase your rate of success. Link in my profile.
larrys 14y ago
"I failed miserably at this for two simple reasons: I hate rejection" Rejection is tough on everyone. Good sales people do a few things to mitigate this that I've noticed and practiced. One thing is to think of it as a game to expect a certain amount of rejection as part of what you do in advance. I mean if I told you right now to pick up the phone and call someone and pitch them and there was no outcome and I paid you $20 to do it you probably wouldn't have a fear of doing that. If I told you that I would pay you if they hang up on you $20 but $0 if they don't you probably would all the sudden not be afraid of the hangup, right? It's all a psychological game. Same thing with approaching a girl in a bar. Second thing though is that some good sales people don't pick up on social cues as well as others. So they don't feel the rejection as much as sensitive people do. If you are cold calling the same micro expressions that might turn a sensitive person into jelly completely escapes many good salespeople. Same with just a voice. It takes time to get over this automatic reaction but it can be done with practice just like anything else. (Although you don't want to turn it off because the same skill is really good for negotiating.)
- AznHisoka 14y ago
  Perhaps it's best to be emotionless and cold? That way you don't take rejection that personally.
  - n_coats 14y ago
    those could be good hindsight characteristics to mitigate the emotion of rejection, but in taking on a sale I think it is better to be warm and aware of the social cues your potential client is providing. The best salesman are able to close by adapting to the various physical and social cues people provide.
- rgraham 14y ago
  My experience with sales people is that they pick up on social cues much better than average. The good ones just don't take rejection poorly. It's part of success and often you can learn to prepare or target better from the experience.
bromley 14y ago
6 customers at $199 a month is almost $1200 per month. Sure, it's not a fortune, but I wonder why it wasn't enough for "leave it running, work on something else, cash the checks, see what happens" to at least be one of the options.
- 9oliYQjP 14y ago
  I wish more entrepreneurs would be honest about how they're actually doing with other entrepreneurs, so that they could reveal options that haven't been thought of. Forget amongst fellow entrepreneurs though. Even within business partnerships honesty is hard to come by, lest one partner be accused of being a cynic and not having the faith. Still, I think every entrepreneur should have his or her own personal set of trusted advisors just for discussing topics like this.
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    Gotta keep up that bravado. It's in the same vein as HN's steadily inflating estimate of "what salaries do most half-decent new college grads get". I think I heard 120k most recently.
- jmonegro 14y ago
  That's around $1,800 US when you do the GBP to USD exchange.
  - bromley 14y ago
    Crikey, yes, I somehow misread the £ sign as $. Alas too late to edit my post now.
- blantonl 14y ago
  I suspect it was because he also needed to make a living, in addition to covering expenses for the business. $24,000/year in revenue is tight for any business - even a single employee business.
  - 14y ago
jp 14y ago
Designers do not like strangers. Hard to build up trust unless you got direct connections and phone numbers. Lots of pressure in the biz.
ckluis 14y ago
Excellent post Ryan. Working in enterprise software our sales guys here No a hell of a lot more than Yes. When I hired the last two new guys, I said .2 is a great batting average in baseball. You'll never be close to that in enterprise software. It's a numbers game. Heard those types of speaches all the time in grad school regarding startups and sales.
mikeleeorg 14y ago
"Worse, I had to admit to my wife that I failed. I couldn’t even pay my half of the mortgage." Three cheers to the significant others that are patient with entrepreneurs and willing to put up with us!
joshfraser 14y ago
We'd been running EventVue for 3 years, were exhausted and at the end of our runway when Brad Feld (one of our investors) asked us one question: "Are you still having fun?" When we couldn't honestly answer "yes", his advice was "Then quit! Life's too short." We announced we were shutting down the company the next day and I've never felt more relieved.
- joshfraser 14y ago
  More context: http://blog.eventvue.com/post/372936164/post-mortem http://blog.eventvue.com/post/372936164/post-mortem
  - alabut 14y ago
    And to think that shortly after you unplugged and went to New Zealand to shake it all off before jumping back into your next awesome new venture (which seems to be going really well). I bet you would've burnt out if you hadn't and Torbit wouldn't have happened, even if you had the idea or bandwidth for it. I've flirted with the crispy edge of burnout a bunch of times since moving to SF. You haven't really been working hard unless you've at least once seriously considered chucking it all to become a forest ranger, surf instructor or dog walker.
    - joshfraser 14y ago
      Probably true
- einhverfr 14y ago
  That's the thing. And that's why inspiration (which largely means the ability to have fun while working harder than just about anyone else!) is so important.
- pbhjpbhj 14y ago
  So, the answer is to just be rich and then it's all easy? I'm here now, not having fun; but I also rather like eating and having somewhere to sleep ...
julian25 14y ago
I remember hearing once (possible on Marco Arment's Build and Analyze) that million dollar ideas aren't created overnight. Companies like Rovio (creators of Angry Birds) had to suffer through tons of failed products before they struck gold. I think this article shows the value of perseverance and poses a very important question: when do you quit and try something new.

146 points by ryancarson 14y ago

lcusack 14y ago

How about a blog post on why Ryan Carson consistently writes the best blog posts?

ryancarson 14y ago
That's too kind, but thank you.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
kloncks 14y ago
Picks amazing hats as well.

porter 14y ago

Great post. I'd love to hear about the other failed startup.

ryancarson 14y ago
I'll get there :)

larrys 14y ago

"2 - Hire a good salesperson" - "I couldn’t afford #2 " Why not partner with a good salesperson someone who isn't afraid to pick up the phone and make sales calls?

ryancarson 14y ago
I didn't think of that option, to be frank. It's amazing how much you learn over the years, simply by screwing up and trying again.
rgraham 14y ago
I'm working on a book that helps entrepreneurs pick up the phone. It has been something I've had success with and I think it is tremendously under developed in our circles. Good preparation, targeting, and some experience can help you handle rejection and increase your rate of success. Link in my profile.

larrys 14y ago

"I failed miserably at this for two simple reasons: I hate rejection" Rejection is tough on everyone. Good sales people do a few things to mitigate this that I've noticed and practiced. One thing is to think of it as a game to expect a certain amount of rejection as part of what you do in advance. I mean if I told you right now to pick up the phone and call someone and pitch them and there was no outcome and I paid you $20 to do it you probably wouldn't have a fear of doing that. If I told you that I would pay you if they hang up on you $20 but $0 if they don't you probably would all the sudden not be afraid of the hangup, right? It's all a psychological game. Same thing with approaching a girl in a bar. Second thing though is that some good sales people don't pick up on social cues as well as others. So they don't feel the rejection as much as sensitive people do. If you are cold calling the same micro expressions that might turn a sensitive person into jelly completely escapes many good salespeople. Same with just a voice. It takes time to get over this automatic reaction but it can be done with practice just like anything else. (Although you don't want to turn it off because the same skill is really good for negotiating.)

AznHisoka 14y ago
Perhaps it's best to be emotionless and cold? That way you don't take rejection that personally.
- n_coats 14y ago
  those could be good hindsight characteristics to mitigate the emotion of rejection, but in taking on a sale I think it is better to be warm and aware of the social cues your potential client is providing. The best salesman are able to close by adapting to the various physical and social cues people provide.
rgraham 14y ago
My experience with sales people is that they pick up on social cues much better than average. The good ones just don't take rejection poorly. It's part of success and often you can learn to prepare or target better from the experience.

bromley 14y ago

6 customers at $199 a month is almost $1200 per month. Sure, it's not a fortune, but I wonder why it wasn't enough for "leave it running, work on something else, cash the checks, see what happens" to at least be one of the options.

9oliYQjP 14y ago
I wish more entrepreneurs would be honest about how they're actually doing with other entrepreneurs, so that they could reveal options that haven't been thought of. Forget amongst fellow entrepreneurs though. Even within business partnerships honesty is hard to come by, lest one partner be accused of being a cynic and not having the faith. Still, I think every entrepreneur should have his or her own personal set of trusted advisors just for discussing topics like this.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  Gotta keep up that bravado. It's in the same vein as HN's steadily inflating estimate of "what salaries do most half-decent new college grads get". I think I heard 120k most recently.
jmonegro 14y ago
That's around $1,800 US when you do the GBP to USD exchange.
- bromley 14y ago
  Crikey, yes, I somehow misread the £ sign as $. Alas too late to edit my post now.
blantonl 14y ago
I suspect it was because he also needed to make a living, in addition to covering expenses for the business. $24,000/year in revenue is tight for any business - even a single employee business.
- 14y ago

jp 14y ago

Designers do not like strangers. Hard to build up trust unless you got direct connections and phone numbers. Lots of pressure in the biz.

ckluis 14y ago

Excellent post Ryan. Working in enterprise software our sales guys here No a hell of a lot more than Yes. When I hired the last two new guys, I said .2 is a great batting average in baseball. You'll never be close to that in enterprise software. It's a numbers game. Heard those types of speaches all the time in grad school regarding startups and sales.

mikeleeorg 14y ago

"Worse, I had to admit to my wife that I failed. I couldn’t even pay my half of the mortgage." Three cheers to the significant others that are patient with entrepreneurs and willing to put up with us!

joshfraser 14y ago

We'd been running EventVue for 3 years, were exhausted and at the end of our runway when Brad Feld (one of our investors) asked us one question: "Are you still having fun?" When we couldn't honestly answer "yes", his advice was "Then quit! Life's too short." We announced we were shutting down the company the next day and I've never felt more relieved.

joshfraser 14y ago
More context: http://blog.eventvue.com/post/372936164/post-mortem http://blog.eventvue.com/post/372936164/post-mortem
- alabut 14y ago
  And to think that shortly after you unplugged and went to New Zealand to shake it all off before jumping back into your next awesome new venture (which seems to be going really well). I bet you would've burnt out if you hadn't and Torbit wouldn't have happened, even if you had the idea or bandwidth for it. I've flirted with the crispy edge of burnout a bunch of times since moving to SF. You haven't really been working hard unless you've at least once seriously considered chucking it all to become a forest ranger, surf instructor or dog walker.
  - joshfraser 14y ago
    Probably true
einhverfr 14y ago
That's the thing. And that's why inspiration (which largely means the ability to have fun while working harder than just about anyone else!) is so important.
pbhjpbhj 14y ago
So, the answer is to just be rich and then it's all easy? I'm here now, not having fun; but I also rather like eating and having somewhere to sleep ...

julian25 14y ago

I remember hearing once (possible on Marco Arment's Build and Analyze) that million dollar ideas aren't created overnight. Companies like Rovio (creators of Angry Birds) had to suffer through tons of failed products before they struck gold. I think this article shows the value of perseverance and poses a very important question: when do you quit and try something new.