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Because the EU values their citizens privacy tech may leave. Personally I could live with that if that is the result of my privacy being protected.

by jmclnx 2y ago

betaby 2y ago
> Otherwise businesses have no ability to plan for the future and investment stops. And then there is a 'chat control' every year pushed relentlessly. Thus no, not at all. EU doesn't value citizens privacy.
- thrance 2y ago
  Chat control still has not passed, and GDPR arguably contains a few articles in favor of citizens privacy. I wouldn't say "not at all".
- dijit 2y ago
  The EU commission (made of elected statesmen from all over the EU) is free to propose as many laws as it wants, but these things never have broad appeal and do not pass parliament (the MEPs we directly elect). Chat control keeps being proposed by the same Swedish politician, and she will continue to do so and she will continue to fail- because politicians in the EU are already aware its stupid.
  - rdm_blackhole 2y ago
    You are wrong, most MEPs know that this will break encryption and are more than happy to go for the ride because they have exempted themselves from such regulation. Surveillance for thee not for me. Chat control is not just the love child from the Swedish politician, it is being pushed by US surveillance companies that convinced the commission members that CP can be detected and stopped only if Europol has access to all your messages, emails, photos and videos until the end of time without having any recourse as to what it will be used for or by whom it will be viewed. Then there is also Chat Control V1 which is currently extended each year despite being a temporary measure supposedly. Then there is also the data retention directive which everyone knows was illegal to start with and took 10 years to be overturned. The fact that people still associate EU with privacy is a joke. The EU wants your data just like Meta and Apple or Google. At least Meta is not trying to gaslight me into thinking that giving my data is to save the children or some other complete BS reason.
    - dijit 2y ago
      How do you reason your thinking with the fact that the EU created GDPR? The EU laws typically fall on the side of promoting privacy and protecting citizens against large multinational organisations (criminal and legitimate). There is a need for greater powers to prevent crime, but nobody is going to weaken privacy for it. The most likely outcome is a centralised interpol-esque database to track and track suspects more quickly. Right now its very easy for criminals to just change hosting region and the investigating national police have no jurisdiction to do anything. It’s a large issue.
      - rdm_blackhole 2y ago
        That is not what Chat control is. Chat Control is live analysis of all your messages/emails/photos and videos. Chat Control breaks encryption because it wants to snoop on the messages/photos before being encrypted EtoE by the messaging providers. There is no need for greater powers to prevent crime. It has been determined that there isn't enough funding to investigate the crimes reported already and now this system is supposed to report even more crime at the price of my privacy. I could see potentially a system where known suspects are targeted specifically but in this case, everybody is a suspect. What happened to presumption of innocence? The fact of the matter is that chat control is the digital Stasi, always listening to your conversations, analyzing your messages. God forbid the algorithm flags your innocent picture wrongly. Is this the future we want?
cheptsov 2y ago
It's socialism versus capitalism at its finest. The problem is that socialism risks regulating big tech out of existence. Is that an issue? Absolutely. By stifling big tech, Europe becomes heavily dependent on the US, which ultimately hurts our quality of life. As an entrepreneur living in Europe, the best thing you can do is move to the US.
- kazen44 2y ago
  i don't think you know what socialism means if this is your interpretation. Lets not forget that half of the EU actually lived under a quasi socialist regime not that long ago...
- nrr 2y ago
  I'm not sure I follow. The incumbent capital class is driving policy decisions around this. Where's the socialism?
phyzix5761 2y ago
If the EU cares about its citizen's privacy why does it do everything in its power to spy on its own citizens?
- NekkoDroid 2y ago
  Are you talking about the "Chat Control" that keeps on getting shut down?
  - sunaookami 2y ago
    It was not shut down, it will certainly come. The DSA is another tool that is already in effect. Bit by bit all the pieces of a surveillance state are coming together in the EU.

Because the EU values their citizens privacy tech may leave. Personally I could live with that if that is the result of my privacy being protected.

by jmclnx 2y ago

Because the EU values their citizens privacy tech may leave. Personally I could live with that if that is the result of my privacy being protected.

betaby 2y ago

> Otherwise businesses have no ability to plan for the future and investment stops. And then there is a 'chat control' every year pushed relentlessly. Thus no, not at all. EU doesn't value citizens privacy.

thrance 2y ago
Chat control still has not passed, and GDPR arguably contains a few articles in favor of citizens privacy. I wouldn't say "not at all".
dijit 2y ago
The EU commission (made of elected statesmen from all over the EU) is free to propose as many laws as it wants, but these things never have broad appeal and do not pass parliament (the MEPs we directly elect). Chat control keeps being proposed by the same Swedish politician, and she will continue to do so and she will continue to fail- because politicians in the EU are already aware its stupid.
- rdm_blackhole 2y ago
  You are wrong, most MEPs know that this will break encryption and are more than happy to go for the ride because they have exempted themselves from such regulation. Surveillance for thee not for me. Chat control is not just the love child from the Swedish politician, it is being pushed by US surveillance companies that convinced the commission members that CP can be detected and stopped only if Europol has access to all your messages, emails, photos and videos until the end of time without having any recourse as to what it will be used for or by whom it will be viewed. Then there is also Chat Control V1 which is currently extended each year despite being a temporary measure supposedly. Then there is also the data retention directive which everyone knows was illegal to start with and took 10 years to be overturned. The fact that people still associate EU with privacy is a joke. The EU wants your data just like Meta and Apple or Google. At least Meta is not trying to gaslight me into thinking that giving my data is to save the children or some other complete BS reason.
  - dijit 2y ago
    How do you reason your thinking with the fact that the EU created GDPR? The EU laws typically fall on the side of promoting privacy and protecting citizens against large multinational organisations (criminal and legitimate). There is a need for greater powers to prevent crime, but nobody is going to weaken privacy for it. The most likely outcome is a centralised interpol-esque database to track and track suspects more quickly. Right now its very easy for criminals to just change hosting region and the investigating national police have no jurisdiction to do anything. It’s a large issue.
    - rdm_blackhole 2y ago
      That is not what Chat control is. Chat Control is live analysis of all your messages/emails/photos and videos. Chat Control breaks encryption because it wants to snoop on the messages/photos before being encrypted EtoE by the messaging providers. There is no need for greater powers to prevent crime. It has been determined that there isn't enough funding to investigate the crimes reported already and now this system is supposed to report even more crime at the price of my privacy. I could see potentially a system where known suspects are targeted specifically but in this case, everybody is a suspect. What happened to presumption of innocence? The fact of the matter is that chat control is the digital Stasi, always listening to your conversations, analyzing your messages. God forbid the algorithm flags your innocent picture wrongly. Is this the future we want?

cheptsov 2y ago

It's socialism versus capitalism at its finest. The problem is that socialism risks regulating big tech out of existence. Is that an issue? Absolutely. By stifling big tech, Europe becomes heavily dependent on the US, which ultimately hurts our quality of life. As an entrepreneur living in Europe, the best thing you can do is move to the US.

kazen44 2y ago
i don't think you know what socialism means if this is your interpretation. Lets not forget that half of the EU actually lived under a quasi socialist regime not that long ago...
nrr 2y ago
I'm not sure I follow. The incumbent capital class is driving policy decisions around this. Where's the socialism?

phyzix5761 2y ago

If the EU cares about its citizen's privacy why does it do everything in its power to spy on its own citizens?

NekkoDroid 2y ago
Are you talking about the "Chat Control" that keeps on getting shut down?
- sunaookami 2y ago
  It was not shut down, it will certainly come. The DSA is another tool that is already in effect. Bit by bit all the pieces of a surveillance state are coming together in the EU.