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>Olson said. "For the most part, the citrus industry has died in Florida." Interesting article. It also explains why I never see ads touting Florida Orange Ju

by jmclnx 2y ago

>Olson said. "For the most part, the citrus industry has died in Florida." Interesting article. It also explains why I never see ads touting Florida Orange Juice anymore. >Disease and climate issues have also affected most of the world's top citrus-producing countries Yet the Gov of Florida is still denying Climate Change, wonder what it is like seeing an industry FL had a lot of pride about slowly dying. I feel bad for the farmers, I doubt Pongamia Trees will replace all their lost revenue.

Mistletoe 2y ago
I had no idea the Florida citrus industry died. That’s disturbing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/11/09/end-florida-orange-juice-lethal-disease-is-decimating-its-citrus-industry/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/11/0...
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  I read the whole article. Doesn’t sound like it’s dead (actually production was up recently) but it’s a race to survive and most small farmers are being wiped out as they don’t have the means to raze all their trees and start over. So the outcome is still uncertain.
  - solox3 2y ago
    That's because the article was from 2019.
    - jerlam 2y ago
      Here's a more recent article from May 2024, with graphs. It looks dire: https://citrusindustry.net/2024/05/07/florida-orange-production-plummeted-years/ https://citrusindustry.net/2024/05/07/florida-orange-product...
      - insane_dreamer 2y ago
        Good point. I hadn't checked the date on the article. Wow, that is dire indeed.
StephenSmith 2y ago
Most of the citrus growers are just selling off their land for housing developments. Florida is still experiencing high growth. A lot of that growth is older populations trying to avoid state taxes on their retirement income. These people don't need to live near industrialized areas. They just want to live near other older populations.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  I am hearing from people who are interested in going there but perceiving it is "full", that is has gotten so crowded and crazy that it is better to retire in place.
  - imchillyb 2y ago
    I live in FL, that take is FUD from those with vested interests in taxable incomes. FL is a great place to retire, and no state income tax is only one out of 1,000s of reasons to move to FL instead of where you're currently residing. If you're a remote worker, or retired you just can't beat Florida's no income tax, great climate, and affordable living. If someone is telling you different, they're trying to sell you something. We don't have to sell anyone on Florida, here, as it sells itself many times over.
    - lo_zamoyski 2y ago
      > We don't have to sell anyone on Florida but... > FL is a great place to retire, and no state income tax is only one out of 1,000s of reasons to move to FL instead of where you're currently residing. > If you're a remote worker, or retired you just can't beat Florida's no income tax, great climate, and affordable living.
    - msluyter 2y ago
      Orlando resident here. Disagree with "great climate" and "affordable living." I honestly don't understand those who say Florida has great weather. We have basically two seasons: Wet season: Hot and humid. Being outside after ~10am feels like being in a sauna. It rains nearly every afternoon. Usable daylight hours for outdoor activities, when you subtract the hottest part of the day and the rain time is like 3-4 hours. Dry season: Mild & less humid. Less rain. The problem is that wet season is like 6-8 months out of the year! I wouldn't call any place that's this miserable for this much of the year a place with "great climate." Yesterday, I took off work and went to Bok Tower Gardens with my family (neat place, btw). It was insanely hot and humid, and I was pretty miserable. Prior to living in Orlando I lived in Austin, TX, which is also hot but felt more comfortable because it's so much drier. And perhaps I'm bitter and making an unfair comparison, but Orlando, at least, is a cultural wasteland compared to Austin. And although real estate was luckily much less expensive when we moved here in 2021, prices have risen rapidly over the last few years and aren't quite the bargain they previously were. You can find cheap housing if you want to live in one of Orlando's many soulless exurbias, but if you want to live close to downtown or in Winter Park, prices are on par with Austin.
onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
> Yet the Gov of Florida is still denying Climate Change, wonder what it is like seeing an industry FL had a lot of pride about slowly dying. I feel bad for the farmers, I doubt Pongamia Trees will replace all their lost revenue. Citrus only generates about $7k per year per acre in revenue. From a tax perspective, you're looking at about ~$100 per acre per year. You're getting 10x that from a single small house. Citrus farming is not a good business. It's probably for the best if those people do something more productive with their land. Pongamia, producing more fat and protein, is probably a better option. Farmers aren't stupid. They wouldn't be switching if it wasn't a better ooption.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fckflorida 2y ago
  [flagged]
twodave 2y ago
As a Floridian, my understanding is that disease is a much worse problem than climate. For example, nobody yet knows how to effectively control the bacteria that causes citrus greening. It is transmitted via insects, grafting, etc. and very difficult to prevent the spread of once it's in an area. So once it showed up in Florida (it originated in South China) it was basically just a matter of time before it became a widespread problem. And if a cure isn't found we could lose a lot more than oranges, and in a lot more places.
- 11235813213455 2y ago
  These diseases are mostly consequences of climate changes (including pollutions increases, plastics, ..), so long term, mid term, short term it's always climate change the most important challenge, at global and local scale
  - justinclift 2y ago
    Isn't it more a globalisation problem? ie stuff being transported between countries all the time now, and invading species seem to be good hitchhikers?
    - arrosenberg 2y ago
      It's both. Globalization causes the outbreak, but climate change makes the world more habitable for these microbiotics.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    You also can't neatly separate disease issues from climate issues. Insects and diseases are both expanding their ranges in a warmer world.
    - 11235813213455 2y ago
      In a normal world with enough biodiversity, it's balanced, some species can die, newer comes. In a human society whole ranges of species are killed because human have such an impact, insect mass is 10x less than 30 years ago, the problems is certainly not too much insects, it's the opposite, their lack of habitat too because we put concrete, roads everywhere, so instead of trying to fight directly and incorrectly these diseases, it's much better to fight the source issue, reducing car traffic, reducing/stopping air traffic, maritim traffic, etc..
trompetenaccoun 2y ago
>Disease and climate issues have also affected most of the world's top citrus-producing countries What evidence is there for this? The author goes on to not cite anything from the US and actually gives an example from Brazil that uses faulty logic, making the common mistake of confusing whether with climate. I live in Asia and have seen first hand how production in China has gone up over the years, not down. This can also be proven in numbers.¹ ² China happens to be the world's top producing country btw. So what does Freida Frisaro know that the USDA Foreign Agricultural Service, private analysts and traders, as well as people living in China don't know? Does "climate change" only happen in Western countries? Quote: > "After several years of consistent growth[!], China’s citrus production in MY 2023/24 is expected to continue to climb and will remain the largest fruit category, outperforming other fruits (i.e., apples). With favorable weather and the recovering acreage from earlier greening disease, all citrus crops – oranges, tangerines, mandarins, grapefruits, pomelos – are expected to have strong yields. Although consumers are increasingly price conscious, demand is expected to remain strong. Incremental changes in trade flows are anticipated, as China continues to promote regional trade."² ¹ https://www.statista.com/statistics/275645/citrus-fruit-production-in-china/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/275645/citrus-fruit-prod... ² https://apps.fas.usda.gov/newgainapi/api/Report/DownloadReportByFileName?fileName=Citrus%20Annual_Guangzhou%20ATO_China%20-%20People%27s%20Republic%20of_CH2023-0192.pdf https://apps.fas.usda.gov/newgainapi/api/Report/DownloadRepo...
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  I don't understand your line of reasoning here. "Asia is growing more citrus, so if a state in the US is growing less citrus, a global phenomenon can't be a contributor"? Did I get that right?
  - trompetenaccoun 2y ago
    The decrease in production in Florida could be due to climate change. It could also not be. I'm pointing out that the article provides no proof and am asking what evidence there is. Using the same logic the author used and applying it to the USDA report, do you then believe climate change has lead to an increase in production in China? Would you welcome articles praising climate change for giving us more Chinese citrus?
howard941 2y ago
It took three strikes to knock out Florida's citrus kingdom, the orchards that stretched across central Florida. There were hard freezes in the 80s all the way down to Lake Okeechobee. Then there was Medfly. Now this citrus greening is going to take the rest of them out.

by jmclnx 2y ago

Mistletoe 2y ago

I had no idea the Florida citrus industry died. That’s disturbing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/11/09/end-florida-orange-juice-lethal-disease-is-decimating-its-citrus-industry/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/11/0...

insane_dreamer 2y ago
I read the whole article. Doesn’t sound like it’s dead (actually production was up recently) but it’s a race to survive and most small farmers are being wiped out as they don’t have the means to raze all their trees and start over. So the outcome is still uncertain.
- solox3 2y ago
  That's because the article was from 2019.
  - jerlam 2y ago
    Here's a more recent article from May 2024, with graphs. It looks dire: https://citrusindustry.net/2024/05/07/florida-orange-production-plummeted-years/ https://citrusindustry.net/2024/05/07/florida-orange-product...
    - insane_dreamer 2y ago
      Good point. I hadn't checked the date on the article. Wow, that is dire indeed.

StephenSmith 2y ago

Most of the citrus growers are just selling off their land for housing developments. Florida is still experiencing high growth. A lot of that growth is older populations trying to avoid state taxes on their retirement income. These people don't need to live near industrialized areas. They just want to live near other older populations.

PaulHoule 2y ago
I am hearing from people who are interested in going there but perceiving it is "full", that is has gotten so crowded and crazy that it is better to retire in place.
- imchillyb 2y ago
  I live in FL, that take is FUD from those with vested interests in taxable incomes. FL is a great place to retire, and no state income tax is only one out of 1,000s of reasons to move to FL instead of where you're currently residing. If you're a remote worker, or retired you just can't beat Florida's no income tax, great climate, and affordable living. If someone is telling you different, they're trying to sell you something. We don't have to sell anyone on Florida, here, as it sells itself many times over.
  - lo_zamoyski 2y ago
    > We don't have to sell anyone on Florida but... > FL is a great place to retire, and no state income tax is only one out of 1,000s of reasons to move to FL instead of where you're currently residing. > If you're a remote worker, or retired you just can't beat Florida's no income tax, great climate, and affordable living.
  - msluyter 2y ago
    Orlando resident here. Disagree with "great climate" and "affordable living." I honestly don't understand those who say Florida has great weather. We have basically two seasons: Wet season: Hot and humid. Being outside after ~10am feels like being in a sauna. It rains nearly every afternoon. Usable daylight hours for outdoor activities, when you subtract the hottest part of the day and the rain time is like 3-4 hours. Dry season: Mild & less humid. Less rain. The problem is that wet season is like 6-8 months out of the year! I wouldn't call any place that's this miserable for this much of the year a place with "great climate." Yesterday, I took off work and went to Bok Tower Gardens with my family (neat place, btw). It was insanely hot and humid, and I was pretty miserable. Prior to living in Orlando I lived in Austin, TX, which is also hot but felt more comfortable because it's so much drier. And perhaps I'm bitter and making an unfair comparison, but Orlando, at least, is a cultural wasteland compared to Austin. And although real estate was luckily much less expensive when we moved here in 2021, prices have risen rapidly over the last few years and aren't quite the bargain they previously were. You can find cheap housing if you want to live in one of Orlando's many soulless exurbias, but if you want to live close to downtown or in Winter Park, prices are on par with Austin.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

> Yet the Gov of Florida is still denying Climate Change, wonder what it is like seeing an industry FL had a lot of pride about slowly dying. I feel bad for the farmers, I doubt Pongamia Trees will replace all their lost revenue. Citrus only generates about $7k per year per acre in revenue. From a tax perspective, you're looking at about ~$100 per acre per year. You're getting 10x that from a single small house. Citrus farming is not a good business. It's probably for the best if those people do something more productive with their land. Pongamia, producing more fat and protein, is probably a better option. Farmers aren't stupid. They wouldn't be switching if it wasn't a better ooption.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
fckflorida 2y ago
[flagged]

twodave 2y ago

As a Floridian, my understanding is that disease is a much worse problem than climate. For example, nobody yet knows how to effectively control the bacteria that causes citrus greening. It is transmitted via insects, grafting, etc. and very difficult to prevent the spread of once it's in an area. So once it showed up in Florida (it originated in South China) it was basically just a matter of time before it became a widespread problem. And if a cure isn't found we could lose a lot more than oranges, and in a lot more places.

11235813213455 2y ago
These diseases are mostly consequences of climate changes (including pollutions increases, plastics, ..), so long term, mid term, short term it's always climate change the most important challenge, at global and local scale
- justinclift 2y ago
  Isn't it more a globalisation problem? ie stuff being transported between countries all the time now, and invading species seem to be good hitchhikers?
  - arrosenberg 2y ago
    It's both. Globalization causes the outbreak, but climate change makes the world more habitable for these microbiotics.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  You also can't neatly separate disease issues from climate issues. Insects and diseases are both expanding their ranges in a warmer world.
  - 11235813213455 2y ago
    In a normal world with enough biodiversity, it's balanced, some species can die, newer comes. In a human society whole ranges of species are killed because human have such an impact, insect mass is 10x less than 30 years ago, the problems is certainly not too much insects, it's the opposite, their lack of habitat too because we put concrete, roads everywhere, so instead of trying to fight directly and incorrectly these diseases, it's much better to fight the source issue, reducing car traffic, reducing/stopping air traffic, maritim traffic, etc..

trompetenaccoun 2y ago

>Disease and climate issues have also affected most of the world's top citrus-producing countries What evidence is there for this? The author goes on to not cite anything from the US and actually gives an example from Brazil that uses faulty logic, making the common mistake of confusing whether with climate. I live in Asia and have seen first hand how production in China has gone up over the years, not down. This can also be proven in numbers.¹ ² China happens to be the world's top producing country btw. So what does Freida Frisaro know that the USDA Foreign Agricultural Service, private analysts and traders, as well as people living in China don't know? Does "climate change" only happen in Western countries? Quote: > "After several years of consistent growth[!], China’s citrus production in MY 2023/24 is expected to continue to climb and will remain the largest fruit category, outperforming other fruits (i.e., apples). With favorable weather and the recovering acreage from earlier greening disease, all citrus crops – oranges, tangerines, mandarins, grapefruits, pomelos – are expected to have strong yields. Although consumers are increasingly price conscious, demand is expected to remain strong. Incremental changes in trade flows are anticipated, as China continues to promote regional trade."² ¹ https://www.statista.com/statistics/275645/citrus-fruit-production-in-china/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/275645/citrus-fruit-prod... ² https://apps.fas.usda.gov/newgainapi/api/Report/DownloadReportByFileName?fileName=Citrus%20Annual_Guangzhou%20ATO_China%20-%20People%27s%20Republic%20of_CH2023-0192.pdf https://apps.fas.usda.gov/newgainapi/api/Report/DownloadRepo...

BobbyJo 2y ago
I don't understand your line of reasoning here. "Asia is growing more citrus, so if a state in the US is growing less citrus, a global phenomenon can't be a contributor"? Did I get that right?
- trompetenaccoun 2y ago
  The decrease in production in Florida could be due to climate change. It could also not be. I'm pointing out that the article provides no proof and am asking what evidence there is. Using the same logic the author used and applying it to the USDA report, do you then believe climate change has lead to an increase in production in China? Would you welcome articles praising climate change for giving us more Chinese citrus?

howard941 2y ago

It took three strikes to knock out Florida's citrus kingdom, the orchards that stretched across central Florida. There were hard freezes in the 80s all the way down to Lake Okeechobee. Then there was Medfly. Now this citrus greening is going to take the rest of them out.