3 ms·

The only answer I want from this research is whether I should throw away my teflon skillets. Best I (and GPT4) can tell the article does not say.

by ein0p 2y ago

amluto 2y ago
My advice would be: continue to use them, carefully, if they’re in good shape. Teflon skillets are coated with PTFE, which is a perfluorinated polymer — it’s plastic, not a soapy soluble substance. It’s very inert, and it seems to be mostly harmless, but it has a couple of nasty properties: 1. Manufacturing involves using heavily fluorinated surfactants, and those are genuinely nasty chemicals. Only trace amounts should remain in the pan, but I wouldn’t want to be around the factory or its waste stream. 2. It starts to decompose, slowly, at temperatures at which it’s still solid. This is obnoxious for manufacturing. It also means that if you get it too hot at home, it decomposes. I think the results of the decomposition are mostly gasses, and they seem to be especially toxic to birds. Don’t overheat it! This can be challenging, especially on some stoves (ones with big gas flames that hit the sides of the pan or crappy electric stoves with terrible temperature control). 3. It’s soft and easily damaged. Try to avoid scratching it off and eating the pieces. Eww! You can buy “ceramic” coated pans instead. “Ceramic” in this context appears to be almost meaningless, and there are patents for “ceramic” coatings that involve fluorinated silicone compounds. This sounds worse than PTFE to me. There are now a few brands selling explicitly PFAS-free nonstick pans, both “ceramic” and polyester-based. I’d go for the former — do you really want to eat the inevitable bits of polyester that will burn or scratch off into your food?
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  I can’t wrap my head around how you could possibly cook on polyester.
  - lazide 2y ago
    I’m sure it involves fluorine or the like somewhere.
  - amluto 2y ago
    PPG Eclipse, for example: https://assets-us-01.kc-usercontent.com/7c9f15b5-676a-0083-ecb4-52bd17329261/17291bf9-ba97-4d3c-b433-31f742c76302/eclipse-consumer-bakeware-sell-sheet-ppo-english.pdf https://assets-us-01.kc-usercontent.com/7c9f15b5-676a-0083-e... This seems to be sold for bakeware, not pans.
shrimp_emoji 2y ago
Yes. Think about it this way: plastic is the IoT of materials. It's just there to act as a bitter lesson about man's hubris and greed.
strstr 2y ago
The polymer chains are quite long after manufacturing for teflon pans. They are largely “safe”. Don’t use metal utensils with them and don’t overheat them. That said, I personally minimize my use of teflon pans (mostly just use them for eggs since I hate cleaning eggs off) Even if PFAS were as bad as lead (which it is not), teflon pans are probably more analogous to leaded glassware than, say, lead in gasoline or paint. Waterproof outerwear is probably analogous to leaded paint (more likely to leach and plausibly prone to contact mouths accidentally).
- bottom999mottob 2y ago
  Maybe PFAS aren't as "bad" as lead in that the effects of lead are more noticeable in the short-term, but the widespread clinical health effects of PFAS across the entire human population is "bad." Bad is not really a useful enough word to measure the damage PFAS have done to human health. There's far more PFAS floating around inside people's houses, vehicles, clothes, foods than lead; so, I'd consider it worse than lead in terms of reach.
- ein0p 2y ago
  Idk, I was told pfas were safe, and that only held until someone who is not paid by DuPont started to seriously look into them
- Doxin 2y ago
  > I hate cleaning eggs off Eggs don't stick in cast iron if you use a little oil. Ignore all the complex advice on seasoning. Just start using a cast iron pan. At first it'll suck and stuff will stick. Over time it'll keep getting better. If you want to help it along you should heat it to the smoke point after you've scraped your egg out and let it cool naturally before cleaning.
more_corn 2y ago
PFAS are also in: takeout containers, grease proof paper, paper straws, fire retardants (required in furniture and children’s pajamas), rain jackets, dental floss, shampoo, cosmetics, menstrual products, cleaning products.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  If you want a bedtime horror story, go get a PFAS blood test done, or ask your doctor to add it to a panel as part of an annual physical (assuming insurance coverage and reasonable cost). https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/i-tested-my-blood-tap-water-household-products-and-cat-for-pfas-toxic-forever-chemicals-a8299795055/ https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/i...
slowmovintarget 2y ago
If they're older than 10 years, definitely. Cast iron skillets still work, even for eggs (use olive oil instead of butter, it helps). Learn how to season them, and when (rarely) to wash them. Stainless steel for everything else.
- jhanschoo 2y ago
  You don't need cast iron specifically either, you can go with seasoned carbon steel, for example.

The only answer I want from this research is whether I should throw away my teflon skillets. Best I (and GPT4) can tell the article does not say.

by ein0p 2y ago

The only answer I want from this research is whether I should throw away my teflon skillets. Best I (and GPT4) can tell the article does not say.

amluto 2y ago

My advice would be: continue to use them, carefully, if they’re in good shape. Teflon skillets are coated with PTFE, which is a perfluorinated polymer — it’s plastic, not a soapy soluble substance. It’s very inert, and it seems to be mostly harmless, but it has a couple of nasty properties: 1. Manufacturing involves using heavily fluorinated surfactants, and those are genuinely nasty chemicals. Only trace amounts should remain in the pan, but I wouldn’t want to be around the factory or its waste stream. 2. It starts to decompose, slowly, at temperatures at which it’s still solid. This is obnoxious for manufacturing. It also means that if you get it too hot at home, it decomposes. I think the results of the decomposition are mostly gasses, and they seem to be especially toxic to birds. Don’t overheat it! This can be challenging, especially on some stoves (ones with big gas flames that hit the sides of the pan or crappy electric stoves with terrible temperature control). 3. It’s soft and easily damaged. Try to avoid scratching it off and eating the pieces. Eww! You can buy “ceramic” coated pans instead. “Ceramic” in this context appears to be almost meaningless, and there are patents for “ceramic” coatings that involve fluorinated silicone compounds. This sounds worse than PTFE to me. There are now a few brands selling explicitly PFAS-free nonstick pans, both “ceramic” and polyester-based. I’d go for the former — do you really want to eat the inevitable bits of polyester that will burn or scratch off into your food?

dyauspitr 2y ago
I can’t wrap my head around how you could possibly cook on polyester.
- lazide 2y ago
  I’m sure it involves fluorine or the like somewhere.
- amluto 2y ago
  PPG Eclipse, for example: https://assets-us-01.kc-usercontent.com/7c9f15b5-676a-0083-ecb4-52bd17329261/17291bf9-ba97-4d3c-b433-31f742c76302/eclipse-consumer-bakeware-sell-sheet-ppo-english.pdf https://assets-us-01.kc-usercontent.com/7c9f15b5-676a-0083-e... This seems to be sold for bakeware, not pans.

shrimp_emoji 2y ago

Yes. Think about it this way: plastic is the IoT of materials. It's just there to act as a bitter lesson about man's hubris and greed.

strstr 2y ago

The polymer chains are quite long after manufacturing for teflon pans. They are largely “safe”. Don’t use metal utensils with them and don’t overheat them. That said, I personally minimize my use of teflon pans (mostly just use them for eggs since I hate cleaning eggs off) Even if PFAS were as bad as lead (which it is not), teflon pans are probably more analogous to leaded glassware than, say, lead in gasoline or paint. Waterproof outerwear is probably analogous to leaded paint (more likely to leach and plausibly prone to contact mouths accidentally).

bottom999mottob 2y ago
Maybe PFAS aren't as "bad" as lead in that the effects of lead are more noticeable in the short-term, but the widespread clinical health effects of PFAS across the entire human population is "bad." Bad is not really a useful enough word to measure the damage PFAS have done to human health. There's far more PFAS floating around inside people's houses, vehicles, clothes, foods than lead; so, I'd consider it worse than lead in terms of reach.
ein0p 2y ago
Idk, I was told pfas were safe, and that only held until someone who is not paid by DuPont started to seriously look into them
Doxin 2y ago
> I hate cleaning eggs off Eggs don't stick in cast iron if you use a little oil. Ignore all the complex advice on seasoning. Just start using a cast iron pan. At first it'll suck and stuff will stick. Over time it'll keep getting better. If you want to help it along you should heat it to the smoke point after you've scraped your egg out and let it cool naturally before cleaning.

more_corn 2y ago

PFAS are also in: takeout containers, grease proof paper, paper straws, fire retardants (required in furniture and children’s pajamas), rain jackets, dental floss, shampoo, cosmetics, menstrual products, cleaning products.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
If you want a bedtime horror story, go get a PFAS blood test done, or ask your doctor to add it to a panel as part of an annual physical (assuming insurance coverage and reasonable cost). https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/i-tested-my-blood-tap-water-household-products-and-cat-for-pfas-toxic-forever-chemicals-a8299795055/ https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/i...

slowmovintarget 2y ago

If they're older than 10 years, definitely. Cast iron skillets still work, even for eggs (use olive oil instead of butter, it helps). Learn how to season them, and when (rarely) to wash them. Stainless steel for everything else.

jhanschoo 2y ago
You don't need cast iron specifically either, you can go with seasoned carbon steel, for example.