5 ms·

The modern developer yearns for Java

smallmancontrov 2y ago
I had to use eclipse the other day. How the hell is it just as slow and clunky as I remember from 20 years ago? Does it exist in a pocket dimension where Moore's Law doesn't apply?
- TurningCanadian 2y ago
  That's not Java's fault though. IntelliJ IDEA is also built on Java and runs just fine.
- qwery 2y ago
  I think it's pretty remarkable to see any application in continuous use for so long, especially with so few changes[0] -- Eclipse must be doing something right! Maintaining (if not actively improving/developing) a piece of useful software without performance degradation -- that's a win. Keeping that up for decades? That's exceptional. [0] "so few changes": I'm not commenting on the amount of work done on the project or claiming that there is no useful/visible features added or upgrades, but referring to Eclipse of today feeling like the same application as it always did, and that Eclipse hasn't had multiple alarmingly frequent "reboots", "overhauls", etc. [?] keeping performance constant over the last decade or two is a win, relatively speaking, anyway
  - dijit 2y ago
    I agree, that you've pointed it out to me makes it obvious that this is not the norm, and we should celebrate this. I'm reminded of Casey Muratori's rant on Visual Studio; a program that largely feels like it hasn't changed much but clearly has regressed in performance massively; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-0tCy4P1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-0tCy4P1U
  - password4321 2y ago
    > without performance degradation Not accounting for Moore's Law, yikes. Need a comparison adjusted for "today's dollars".
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  It's not as slow as it was 20 years ago. It's only as slow as you remember because the actual performance was so bad that you can't physiologically remember it.
gryfft 2y ago
Maybe just the JVM.
mschuster91 2y ago
Java's ecosystem is just as bad. Gradle is insanely flexible but people create abominations out of it, Maven is extremely rigid so people resort to even worse abominations to get basic shit done.

I had to use eclipse the other day. How the hell is it just as slow and clunky as I remember from 20 years ago? Does it exist in a pocket dimension where Moore's Law doesn't apply?

TurningCanadian 2y ago
That's not Java's fault though. IntelliJ IDEA is also built on Java and runs just fine.
qwery 2y ago
I think it's pretty remarkable to see any application in continuous use for so long, especially with so few changes[0] -- Eclipse must be doing something right! Maintaining (if not actively improving/developing) a piece of useful software without performance degradation -- that's a win. Keeping that up for decades? That's exceptional. [0] "so few changes": I'm not commenting on the amount of work done on the project or claiming that there is no useful/visible features added or upgrades, but referring to Eclipse of today feeling like the same application as it always did, and that Eclipse hasn't had multiple alarmingly frequent "reboots", "overhauls", etc. [?] keeping performance constant over the last decade or two is a win, relatively speaking, anyway
- dijit 2y ago
  I agree, that you've pointed it out to me makes it obvious that this is not the norm, and we should celebrate this. I'm reminded of Casey Muratori's rant on Visual Studio; a program that largely feels like it hasn't changed much but clearly has regressed in performance massively; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-0tCy4P1U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-0tCy4P1U
- password4321 2y ago
  > without performance degradation Not accounting for Moore's Law, yikes. Need a comparison adjusted for "today's dollars".
marcosdumay 2y ago
It's not as slow as it was 20 years ago. It's only as slow as you remember because the actual performance was so bad that you can't physiologically remember it.

gryfft 2y ago

Maybe just the JVM.

mschuster91 2y ago

Java's ecosystem is just as bad. Gradle is insanely flexible but people create abominations out of it, Maven is extremely rigid so people resort to even worse abominations to get basic shit done.