6 ms·

This really makes me wonder about the value of TLDs in general. Let’s say that “gmail” is a well known enough name that “gmail.com”, “gmail.org”, …, “gmail.top”

This really makes me wonder about the value of TLDs in general. Let’s say that “gmail” is a well known enough name that “gmail.com”, “gmail.org”, …, “gmail.top” should be reserved by default. If that’s the case, then the value of separate TLDs becomes interesting because two companies “abc.com” and “abc.top” would now have competing concerns. It seems like only small companies would then be open to phishing, and large ones would possibly be able to use trademark law across all TLDs. In fact large companies tend to try and reserve their name in all major TLDs. I’m not really arguing for or against greater or fewer TLDs, but it does seem like an awkward situation.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago
In theory, Google could pay for the TLD ".google" so that... anything .google is reserved by default for google domains. But this isn't going to work in practice; people don't read URLs so it doesn't matter. Second, for years there was this idea that all porn sites should be forced to go to a .xxx TLD so that it's easy to block, but that's impossible to legislate and / or enforce.
- anamexis 2y ago
  Not sure if this is your point, but Google does have the .google TLD which it reserves for google domains.
  - numbsafari 2y ago
    I think mean the .goog TLD: https://icannwiki.org/.goog https://icannwiki.org/.goog
    - anamexis 2y ago
      I did mean .google, but .goog fits as well. https://icannwiki.org/.google https://icannwiki.org/.google See also .apple, .microsoft, .amazon, .aws, and many more.
- Zambyte 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.google https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.google
  - jsheard 2y ago
    Though Google still doesn't use .google for much of anything a decade after establishing it, because it's confusing for normal users. Their best known gimmick URL is the goo.gl shortener, which is actually the ccTLD for (not) Greece (actually Greenland) rather than a Google-specific one.
    - mr_mitm 2y ago
      gl is greenland
      - jsheard 2y ago
        Oops, so it is. Not sure how I got that mixed up.
    - arp242 2y ago
      I've seen blog.google a few times. Things like "google.com" and "gmail.com" are established brands; switching that to "search.google" or "gmail.google" isn't really going to improve anything for anyone. I guess it's kinda cute for blog.google, but other than that it's pretty useless. A bunch of companies bought these brand TLDs only to never use it and then abandon them a few years later. Probably a "zomg this is a new internets thing and if we don't do all the new internets things it we'll be left behind on the internets, and we can't be left behind on in the internets!!!11"-type affair. Here's a list: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/gtld-registry-agreement-termination-2015-10-09-en https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/gtld-registry-agreemen...
      - hypeatei 2y ago
        gmail.google also doesn't make sense "Google mail dot Google" mail.google would be better.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fragmede 2y ago
  Stupidly enough, they did, and then didn't glue things to it.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
If I could go back in time and change how domain names work, I would probably do 2 things: 1. Flip the order of parts, ex. com.ycombinator.news - this makes the whole URL big-endian, instead of the absurd middle-endian system we have now. 2. Either a. drop the requirement to have TLDs at all - gmail would just be "https://google.mail/inbox https://google.mail/inbox" (including my first suggestion; "google" is the root domain), or perhaps just "https://gmail/inbox https://gmail/inbox" OR b. actually commit to a small number of strictly-enforced TLDs - com is not the default, it requires a corporate entity to register, we probably push on having a single TLD for individual humans so ex. blogs tend to live under... actually the "name" TLD wasn't a terrible idea but I'm flexible on exact details of that TLD, just so there's only one of them. Second-levels like us or eu are fine but should again actually enforce having an entity in that country so almost nobody ends up using io or such.
- hobs 2y ago
  If you want trust having a corporate entity is not it, you can make them with no actual humans in the chain of trust, and you can easily register the same company name in multiple countries and cause havoc (as demonstrated with the EV certs)
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    It's not really about "trust" per se, more about forcing domains to be in the right TLD. Today my personal blog lives on a .com domain, which is absurd except that .com is de-facto the default. I aspire to a world where that doesn't happen, because all domains that aren't literally for a business are on something else, so com can't be a default. (Corollary: If you create legal entities in multiple countries, I don't care if you have domains to match. I just want to avoid the current sillyness where people use the io TLD even they have zero association, even on paper, with the British Indian Ocean Territory (or whoever you believe should control that TLD))
- mock-possum 2y ago
  Yeah I like knowing that .us.gov is always a government site, and .edu is always an educational site, and there are governing bodies enforcing that policy - but for the rest, biz and net and com and io are cute, but completely unnecessary. I’d love to just go to https://gmail https://gmail .
tok1 2y ago
One could almost wonder if the explosion of gTLDs in the 2010s has been pushed by registrars as they were seeing Big Money. In (my personal) retrospective, the value for Internet users and their actual usage is vanishingly small--compared to the downsides of massively increased phishing risks and, as you mentioned, the need for companies/brands to nowadays having to register (and pay for) a gazillion of irrelevant TLDs, merely for brand protection and abuse prevention.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago

In theory, Google could pay for the TLD ".google" so that... anything .google is reserved by default for google domains. But this isn't going to work in practice; people don't read URLs so it doesn't matter. Second, for years there was this idea that all porn sites should be forced to go to a .xxx TLD so that it's easy to block, but that's impossible to legislate and / or enforce.

anamexis 2y ago
Not sure if this is your point, but Google does have the .google TLD which it reserves for google domains.
- numbsafari 2y ago
  I think mean the .goog TLD: https://icannwiki.org/.goog https://icannwiki.org/.goog
  - anamexis 2y ago
    I did mean .google, but .goog fits as well. https://icannwiki.org/.google https://icannwiki.org/.google See also .apple, .microsoft, .amazon, .aws, and many more.
Zambyte 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.google https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.google
- jsheard 2y ago
  Though Google still doesn't use .google for much of anything a decade after establishing it, because it's confusing for normal users. Their best known gimmick URL is the goo.gl shortener, which is actually the ccTLD for (not) Greece (actually Greenland) rather than a Google-specific one.
  - mr_mitm 2y ago
    gl is greenland
    - jsheard 2y ago
      Oops, so it is. Not sure how I got that mixed up.
  - arp242 2y ago
    I've seen blog.google a few times. Things like "google.com" and "gmail.com" are established brands; switching that to "search.google" or "gmail.google" isn't really going to improve anything for anyone. I guess it's kinda cute for blog.google, but other than that it's pretty useless. A bunch of companies bought these brand TLDs only to never use it and then abandon them a few years later. Probably a "zomg this is a new internets thing and if we don't do all the new internets things it we'll be left behind on the internets, and we can't be left behind on in the internets!!!11"-type affair. Here's a list: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/gtld-registry-agreement-termination-2015-10-09-en https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/gtld-registry-agreemen...
    - hypeatei 2y ago
      gmail.google also doesn't make sense "Google mail dot Google" mail.google would be better.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
fragmede 2y ago
Stupidly enough, they did, and then didn't glue things to it.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

If I could go back in time and change how domain names work, I would probably do 2 things: 1. Flip the order of parts, ex. com.ycombinator.news - this makes the whole URL big-endian, instead of the absurd middle-endian system we have now. 2. Either a. drop the requirement to have TLDs at all - gmail would just be "https://google.mail/inbox https://google.mail/inbox" (including my first suggestion; "google" is the root domain), or perhaps just "https://gmail/inbox https://gmail/inbox" OR b. actually commit to a small number of strictly-enforced TLDs - com is not the default, it requires a corporate entity to register, we probably push on having a single TLD for individual humans so ex. blogs tend to live under... actually the "name" TLD wasn't a terrible idea but I'm flexible on exact details of that TLD, just so there's only one of them. Second-levels like us or eu are fine but should again actually enforce having an entity in that country so almost nobody ends up using io or such.

hobs 2y ago
If you want trust having a corporate entity is not it, you can make them with no actual humans in the chain of trust, and you can easily register the same company name in multiple countries and cause havoc (as demonstrated with the EV certs)
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  It's not really about "trust" per se, more about forcing domains to be in the right TLD. Today my personal blog lives on a .com domain, which is absurd except that .com is de-facto the default. I aspire to a world where that doesn't happen, because all domains that aren't literally for a business are on something else, so com can't be a default. (Corollary: If you create legal entities in multiple countries, I don't care if you have domains to match. I just want to avoid the current sillyness where people use the io TLD even they have zero association, even on paper, with the British Indian Ocean Territory (or whoever you believe should control that TLD))
mock-possum 2y ago
Yeah I like knowing that .us.gov is always a government site, and .edu is always an educational site, and there are governing bodies enforcing that policy - but for the rest, biz and net and com and io are cute, but completely unnecessary. I’d love to just go to https://gmail https://gmail .

tok1 2y ago

One could almost wonder if the explosion of gTLDs in the 2010s has been pushed by registrars as they were seeing Big Money. In (my personal) retrospective, the value for Internet users and their actual usage is vanishingly small--compared to the downsides of massively increased phishing risks and, as you mentioned, the need for companies/brands to nowadays having to register (and pay for) a gazillion of irrelevant TLDs, merely for brand protection and abuse prevention.