6 ms·

Hyprland is now independent, dropping wlroots

69 points by tuananh 2y ago

yewenjie 2y ago
Love what Hyprland has accomplished and how it has inspired other multiple projects. Even like in 2021 the only daily driver option for Wayland was Sway.
- yewenjie 2y ago
  Edit: can't delete the parent. Reading the other comments about the fiasco regarding CoC, I don't want to support Hyprland unilaterally anymore, still an impressive project on the tech-side, but real life software communities are more than just the tech.
anotherhue 2y ago
Anyone switched from sway that might comment on their experience?
- junon 2y ago
  Have not tried Hyprland but on three separate occasions with three different machines I could never get Sway working. One got close but it would constantly crash.
  - vitus 2y ago
    Got an nvidia gpu in that machine? The Sway author has strong opinions about nvidia (historically warranted), so you need to specify a magic flag (now --unsupported-gpu, previously --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia).
    - junon 2y ago
      That's silly, and reason enough just to stay away from it. I don't like when developers try to evangelize their opinions through things like configuration variables. It's quite childish to me. But yes, that's probably it.
      - vitus 2y ago
        Again, historically it was warranted because Nvidia had their own strong opinions in their proprietary closed-source driver, and hardware acceleration in Wayland just straight up didn't work with said driver for many years because Nvidia was trying to push their own alternative [0], up until 2021 when they finally caved [1]. I agree that the naming of the command-line flag was childish, but I think it was reasonable to refuse to be strongarmed into doing unpaid work to support Nvidia's end-run around standards that all the other players in the space adopted. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Streams-vs-GBM-Toolkits https://www.phoronix.com/news/Streams-vs-GBM-Toolkits [1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/NVIDIA-495.44-Linux-Driver https://www.phoronix.com/news/NVIDIA-495.44-Linux-Driver
- nani8ot 2y ago
  Hyprland has way more features than Sway. There's 1:1 touch gestures, animations, and per-window screen sharing. Also there's all kinds of tiling configuration available, which allows Hyprland to do manual and/or automatic tiling. Sway's lack of features is also its advantage, because it's been the most stable and consistent window manager/compositor experience I've ever had on Linux (X and Wayland). Hyprland sometimes has its bugs, which does make sense given how young and fast-moving the project is.
- gosub100 2y ago
  I would have never tried it without having installed Garuda on a couple boxes recently. It was the first time I've seen all the ricing done correctly. I've never been able to fully replicate the configs done by YouTubers or /r/unixporn, something always didn't quite work, usually fonts or the status bars or color themes. Garuda with hyprland is pre-riced and is extremely fast. I could absolutely notice lower latency in the console. I'm definitely going to use it more.
- SushiHippie 2y ago
  I've used i3 and then sway since a few years, never had any problems (nothing I remember at least). Then I tried out hyprland, and I had multiple crashes a day, and not really saw any benefit compared to sway. I also needed to disable all of the animations which are enabled by default, because they were nauseating and made everything slower (compared to the snappieness of sway, still faster than macos/windows). I would have probably invested some time into debugging the issues, if I had seen any reason why I would want to use Hyprland over Sway. After a few weeks I switched back to sway, and never felt the urge to try it again.
- mrpotato 2y ago
  I started with hyprland when I switched my desktop from windows to arch recently (june) and moved to sway. I ran into bugs and behaviour I don't like: - Having two monitors and turning them off (either physically or through dpms) shifts all workspaces to the last monitor that is on, even if it's on for a split second, - Turning off monitors (physically/dpms) caused waybar to crash. I don't have those issues on sway, so I'll stick with it until hyprland matures a little more.
- ac130kz 2y ago
  I've given hyprland two tries. The first time it was exceptionally laggy and crashed all the time. The second time (earlier this year) hyprland was performing better, but it still had enormous CPU power draw, lagged with disabled animations, for whatever reason had terrible font anti-aliasing (with the same font-config settings as sway). Maybe a full rewrite to this new stack will help, but I doubt it.
randomtoast 2y ago
Now make a version that is Xorg compatible.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Woshiwuja 2y ago
  Or not
- Zambyte 2y ago
  Cool idea! Make it yourself :)
- arghwhat 2y ago
  These things are not window managers you can just port to a different display server. They are themselves display servers equivalent to xorg.
- ac130kz 2y ago
  Guess what, XWayland exists.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    XWayland is great for applications and useless for anything else; I expect full Xorg compatibility would let you use ex. xdotool
    - openmarkand 2y ago
      That does not make sense, wayland and xorg are fundamentally different. in X11 everything is global given that its the X.Org server that manages clients while the wayland compositor does most of the X.Org server by itself. This is also why writing a pure wayland compositor from scratch is much harder as you need to rewrite half of the X.Org server but at the same time in contrast to X11 you don't have security holes like a keylogger in few lines of code. In short, xdotool relies on the X11 protocol while a similar wayland app need a support in the compositor itself. There is some attempts though like: https://github.com/atx/wtype https://github.com/atx/wtype
babnage 2y ago
How does Hyprland compare to similar software such as Enlightenment? Which seems to be the same sort of thing but for X instead of Wayland.
- nerdix 2y ago
  Not that similar at all other than both having a reputation for being pretty (Enlightenment is almost 30 years old so other WM/DEs have caught up to and surpassed it on that front IMO but it had a reputation for being one of the nicer looking WMs back in the day). Enlightenment also supports Wayland these days. Hyprland is a tiling window manager so it is typically compared to things like i3, bspwm, xmonad, etc.
the_duke 2y ago
[flagged]
- wltrool 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ykonstant 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - wltrool 2y ago
      [flagged]
- arghwhat 2y ago
  This is unrelated to that post - vaxry and wlroots was to my knowledge cooperating quite well before vaxry got banned from freedesktop (where wlroots is hosted) for breaking code of conduct and handling it in a very bad way.
- _cenw 2y ago
  vaxry is quite edgy, doesn't believe in structural marginalization and is also part of the anti-CoC crowd. i think this blog post is all you need to read if you want to know if you specifically want to engage with this community: https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists personally i find it quite obnoxious when people pre-empt that i'll have a miserable time by claiming I just need thicker skin to participate and that it's okay because life is hard, in a project i might want to volunteer time and effort to. just me tho.
timcobb 2y ago
It is truly amazing/awesome how many tiling compositors there are in the Linux universe!
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
2pEXgD0fZ5cF 2y ago
Congratulations! Genuinely impressive achievement. I don't plan to use Hyprland but the amount of work Vaxry and the Hyprland contributors put into the project is pretty inspiring.
openmarkand 2y ago
[flagged]
- wltrool 2y ago
  Funnily enough, he's not taking this news of hyprland's independence well at all: https://fosstodon.org/@drewdevault/112841309619974403 https://fosstodon.org/@drewdevault/112841309619974403 Just goes to show that vaxry made a good choice in distancing his project from Drew's. I mean who needs that sort of negativity.
  - safety1st 2y ago
    I was really interested in Sourcehut and some of Drew's other projects until I stumbled across his blog. The guy is completely unhinged. He writes long, expletive laden screeds against anyone in the open source community that he thinks isn't tolerant enough (these people never seem to understand the irony or futility of producing intolerant hate speech towards people that they perceive to be creators of intolerant hate speech). Basically if you offend his chosen people he will fly into a rage and seek to offend and deplatform you for years on end. Gen Z is cooked man. All they seem to be able to do is hate each other over the topic of offensive speech. I don't know how movements like open source which managed to unite everyone manage to survive in a future society managed by Gen Z.
techftw 2y ago
Hyprland is such a masterpiece of technology, cool to see young programmers take on such projects that keep moving oss forward.
bitwize 2y ago
Hope you like compiling it yourself. The toxicity of the community means it was refused inclusion by at least one distro (Void Linux).
- boopyi 2y ago
  [dead]
- anondoe0707 2y ago
  The toxicity of the Void and Freedesktop community right?

69 points by tuananh 2y ago

Love what Hyprland has accomplished and how it has inspired other multiple projects. Even like in 2021 the only daily driver option for Wayland was Sway.

yewenjie 2y ago
Edit: can't delete the parent. Reading the other comments about the fiasco regarding CoC, I don't want to support Hyprland unilaterally anymore, still an impressive project on the tech-side, but real life software communities are more than just the tech.

anotherhue 2y ago

Anyone switched from sway that might comment on their experience?

junon 2y ago
Have not tried Hyprland but on three separate occasions with three different machines I could never get Sway working. One got close but it would constantly crash.
- vitus 2y ago
  Got an nvidia gpu in that machine? The Sway author has strong opinions about nvidia (historically warranted), so you need to specify a magic flag (now --unsupported-gpu, previously --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia).
  - junon 2y ago
    That's silly, and reason enough just to stay away from it. I don't like when developers try to evangelize their opinions through things like configuration variables. It's quite childish to me. But yes, that's probably it.
    - vitus 2y ago
      Again, historically it was warranted because Nvidia had their own strong opinions in their proprietary closed-source driver, and hardware acceleration in Wayland just straight up didn't work with said driver for many years because Nvidia was trying to push their own alternative [0], up until 2021 when they finally caved [1]. I agree that the naming of the command-line flag was childish, but I think it was reasonable to refuse to be strongarmed into doing unpaid work to support Nvidia's end-run around standards that all the other players in the space adopted. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Streams-vs-GBM-Toolkits https://www.phoronix.com/news/Streams-vs-GBM-Toolkits [1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/NVIDIA-495.44-Linux-Driver https://www.phoronix.com/news/NVIDIA-495.44-Linux-Driver
nani8ot 2y ago
Hyprland has way more features than Sway. There's 1:1 touch gestures, animations, and per-window screen sharing. Also there's all kinds of tiling configuration available, which allows Hyprland to do manual and/or automatic tiling. Sway's lack of features is also its advantage, because it's been the most stable and consistent window manager/compositor experience I've ever had on Linux (X and Wayland). Hyprland sometimes has its bugs, which does make sense given how young and fast-moving the project is.
gosub100 2y ago
I would have never tried it without having installed Garuda on a couple boxes recently. It was the first time I've seen all the ricing done correctly. I've never been able to fully replicate the configs done by YouTubers or /r/unixporn, something always didn't quite work, usually fonts or the status bars or color themes. Garuda with hyprland is pre-riced and is extremely fast. I could absolutely notice lower latency in the console. I'm definitely going to use it more.
SushiHippie 2y ago
I've used i3 and then sway since a few years, never had any problems (nothing I remember at least). Then I tried out hyprland, and I had multiple crashes a day, and not really saw any benefit compared to sway. I also needed to disable all of the animations which are enabled by default, because they were nauseating and made everything slower (compared to the snappieness of sway, still faster than macos/windows). I would have probably invested some time into debugging the issues, if I had seen any reason why I would want to use Hyprland over Sway. After a few weeks I switched back to sway, and never felt the urge to try it again.
mrpotato 2y ago
I started with hyprland when I switched my desktop from windows to arch recently (june) and moved to sway. I ran into bugs and behaviour I don't like: - Having two monitors and turning them off (either physically or through dpms) shifts all workspaces to the last monitor that is on, even if it's on for a split second, - Turning off monitors (physically/dpms) caused waybar to crash. I don't have those issues on sway, so I'll stick with it until hyprland matures a little more.
ac130kz 2y ago
I've given hyprland two tries. The first time it was exceptionally laggy and crashed all the time. The second time (earlier this year) hyprland was performing better, but it still had enormous CPU power draw, lagged with disabled animations, for whatever reason had terrible font anti-aliasing (with the same font-config settings as sway). Maybe a full rewrite to this new stack will help, but I doubt it.

randomtoast 2y ago

Now make a version that is Xorg compatible.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Woshiwuja 2y ago
Or not
Zambyte 2y ago
Cool idea! Make it yourself :)
arghwhat 2y ago
These things are not window managers you can just port to a different display server. They are themselves display servers equivalent to xorg.
ac130kz 2y ago
Guess what, XWayland exists.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  XWayland is great for applications and useless for anything else; I expect full Xorg compatibility would let you use ex. xdotool
  - openmarkand 2y ago
    That does not make sense, wayland and xorg are fundamentally different. in X11 everything is global given that its the X.Org server that manages clients while the wayland compositor does most of the X.Org server by itself. This is also why writing a pure wayland compositor from scratch is much harder as you need to rewrite half of the X.Org server but at the same time in contrast to X11 you don't have security holes like a keylogger in few lines of code. In short, xdotool relies on the X11 protocol while a similar wayland app need a support in the compositor itself. There is some attempts though like: https://github.com/atx/wtype https://github.com/atx/wtype

babnage 2y ago

How does Hyprland compare to similar software such as Enlightenment? Which seems to be the same sort of thing but for X instead of Wayland.

nerdix 2y ago
Not that similar at all other than both having a reputation for being pretty (Enlightenment is almost 30 years old so other WM/DEs have caught up to and surpassed it on that front IMO but it had a reputation for being one of the nicer looking WMs back in the day). Enlightenment also supports Wayland these days. Hyprland is a tiling window manager so it is typically compared to things like i3, bspwm, xmonad, etc.

the_duke 2y ago

[flagged]

wltrool 2y ago
[flagged]
- ykonstant 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - wltrool 2y ago
    [flagged]
arghwhat 2y ago
This is unrelated to that post - vaxry and wlroots was to my knowledge cooperating quite well before vaxry got banned from freedesktop (where wlroots is hosted) for breaking code of conduct and handling it in a very bad way.
_cenw 2y ago
vaxry is quite edgy, doesn't believe in structural marginalization and is also part of the anti-CoC crowd. i think this blog post is all you need to read if you want to know if you specifically want to engage with this community: https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists personally i find it quite obnoxious when people pre-empt that i'll have a miserable time by claiming I just need thicker skin to participate and that it's okay because life is hard, in a project i might want to volunteer time and effort to. just me tho.

timcobb 2y ago

It is truly amazing/awesome how many tiling compositors there are in the Linux universe!

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

2pEXgD0fZ5cF 2y ago

Congratulations! Genuinely impressive achievement. I don't plan to use Hyprland but the amount of work Vaxry and the Hyprland contributors put into the project is pretty inspiring.

openmarkand 2y ago

[flagged]

wltrool 2y ago
Funnily enough, he's not taking this news of hyprland's independence well at all: https://fosstodon.org/@drewdevault/112841309619974403 https://fosstodon.org/@drewdevault/112841309619974403 Just goes to show that vaxry made a good choice in distancing his project from Drew's. I mean who needs that sort of negativity.
- safety1st 2y ago
  I was really interested in Sourcehut and some of Drew's other projects until I stumbled across his blog. The guy is completely unhinged. He writes long, expletive laden screeds against anyone in the open source community that he thinks isn't tolerant enough (these people never seem to understand the irony or futility of producing intolerant hate speech towards people that they perceive to be creators of intolerant hate speech). Basically if you offend his chosen people he will fly into a rage and seek to offend and deplatform you for years on end. Gen Z is cooked man. All they seem to be able to do is hate each other over the topic of offensive speech. I don't know how movements like open source which managed to unite everyone manage to survive in a future society managed by Gen Z.

techftw 2y ago

Hyprland is such a masterpiece of technology, cool to see young programmers take on such projects that keep moving oss forward.

bitwize 2y ago

Hope you like compiling it yourself. The toxicity of the community means it was refused inclusion by at least one distro (Void Linux).

boopyi 2y ago
[dead]
anondoe0707 2y ago
The toxicity of the Void and Freedesktop community right?