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They've been in charge for about 3 weeks. Did you want them to come up with plans for a national strategy on rail for the next 25 years within the first 3 weeks

They've been in charge for about 3 weeks. Did you want them to come up with plans for a national strategy on rail for the next 25 years within the first 3 weeks?

chii 2y ago
Why werent they thinking about this for the past 10 years when they're not been in power?
- zimpenfish 2y ago
  You can think about it for the past 10 years but since your thinking is reactionary to the incumbent government (who had a propensity for random decisions!), you might as well have the most basic of plans until you've got a chance to sit down and ponder without interference.
- dkdbejwi383 2y ago
  You can think about it, but then have to deal with the reality of finances etc once actually in power. Back seat driving is a different game.
- barnabee 2y ago
  You don’t have the money nor the armies of civil servants, nor access to all the details when you’re not in government. Probably the best that they can do for anything this complex is headline policies and high level plans. Now they are in power it’s probably only 10–20% about having the right policy and 80–90% about execution being competent, consistent, and quick. They need to be given time to do the right thing, but not too much time.
  - DrBazza 2y ago
    The opposition always have 100% access to all Government spending. It is publicly published. It’s pathetic Westminster politics and Parliamentary privilege that allows both sides to make lies like ‘it’s worse than we thought’.
    - barnabee 2y ago
      > [you don't have] access to all the details when you’re not in government When I wrote this I was not talking about accounting details, though I am not sure whether all of those details are really publicly available once you get down into the delivery organisations and projects that inevitably get set up for something like HS2. What I was getting at is that this kind of project is hugely complex, and develops fast both as delivery progresses (or doesn't) and as decisions are made. Anyone who can't be in the room for those decisions and isn't managing the relationships and receiving the day to day reports is going to be at a big disadvantage if they are trying to make major changes. You can stand on the sidelines and set how you would do things differently, but I don't think you can credibly turn up with a detailed plan that's ready to go on day one for something like this.
      - DrBazza 2y ago
        Agreed. Cabinet (and other) meeting details are generally private, and an FoI request rarely gets anything that's not redacted. There is a vast amount of information in the public domain regarding HS2, and 'vast' is the problem to both the last Government and this one. Which single person can read and be fully clued up a modern UK infrastructure project? Our infrastructure planning needs an overhaul. The Lower Thames Crossing is worse than HS2, far worse, and it's not much more than 10 miles. https://www.cityam.com/lower-thames-crossing-planning-application-becomes-uks-longest-ever-at-more-than-350000-pages-and-costing-almost-300m/ https://www.cityam.com/lower-thames-crossing-planning-applic...
- n4r9 2y ago
  They were. Corbyn announced a nationalisation plan in 2015. But Labour is not a monolith, and Starmer has decided to distance himself from anything that smells vaguely Corbynish.
- surfingdino 2y ago
  They were busy trying to set themselves on fire and seeing what is going on, they are still at it (Starmer just suspended seven Labour MPs). Britain could use a long-term plan for transportation. It really doesn't know what it wants, cancelled HS2, allows property developers build on airfields, and every time there is an inexpensive way to run a train track they dig a ditch or a tunnel instead.
panick21_ 2y ago
They have already announced a plan, and they had one before the election. And it was weak sauce. Badically the Tory plan.

They've been in charge for about 3 weeks. Did you want them to come up with plans for a national strategy on rail for the next 25 years within the first 3 weeks?

chii 2y ago

Why werent they thinking about this for the past 10 years when they're not been in power?

zimpenfish 2y ago
You can think about it for the past 10 years but since your thinking is reactionary to the incumbent government (who had a propensity for random decisions!), you might as well have the most basic of plans until you've got a chance to sit down and ponder without interference.
dkdbejwi383 2y ago
You can think about it, but then have to deal with the reality of finances etc once actually in power. Back seat driving is a different game.
barnabee 2y ago
You don’t have the money nor the armies of civil servants, nor access to all the details when you’re not in government. Probably the best that they can do for anything this complex is headline policies and high level plans. Now they are in power it’s probably only 10–20% about having the right policy and 80–90% about execution being competent, consistent, and quick. They need to be given time to do the right thing, but not too much time.
- DrBazza 2y ago
  The opposition always have 100% access to all Government spending. It is publicly published. It’s pathetic Westminster politics and Parliamentary privilege that allows both sides to make lies like ‘it’s worse than we thought’.
  - barnabee 2y ago
    > [you don't have] access to all the details when you’re not in government When I wrote this I was not talking about accounting details, though I am not sure whether all of those details are really publicly available once you get down into the delivery organisations and projects that inevitably get set up for something like HS2. What I was getting at is that this kind of project is hugely complex, and develops fast both as delivery progresses (or doesn't) and as decisions are made. Anyone who can't be in the room for those decisions and isn't managing the relationships and receiving the day to day reports is going to be at a big disadvantage if they are trying to make major changes. You can stand on the sidelines and set how you would do things differently, but I don't think you can credibly turn up with a detailed plan that's ready to go on day one for something like this.
    - DrBazza 2y ago
      Agreed. Cabinet (and other) meeting details are generally private, and an FoI request rarely gets anything that's not redacted. There is a vast amount of information in the public domain regarding HS2, and 'vast' is the problem to both the last Government and this one. Which single person can read and be fully clued up a modern UK infrastructure project? Our infrastructure planning needs an overhaul. The Lower Thames Crossing is worse than HS2, far worse, and it's not much more than 10 miles. https://www.cityam.com/lower-thames-crossing-planning-application-becomes-uks-longest-ever-at-more-than-350000-pages-and-costing-almost-300m/ https://www.cityam.com/lower-thames-crossing-planning-applic...
n4r9 2y ago
They were. Corbyn announced a nationalisation plan in 2015. But Labour is not a monolith, and Starmer has decided to distance himself from anything that smells vaguely Corbynish.
surfingdino 2y ago
They were busy trying to set themselves on fire and seeing what is going on, they are still at it (Starmer just suspended seven Labour MPs). Britain could use a long-term plan for transportation. It really doesn't know what it wants, cancelled HS2, allows property developers build on airfields, and every time there is an inexpensive way to run a train track they dig a ditch or a tunnel instead.

panick21_ 2y ago

They have already announced a plan, and they had one before the election. And it was weak sauce. Badically the Tory plan.