5 ms·

Careful! Analogs can be very different in toxicity and other properties: some people drink ethanol on a daily basis, and damage is relatively low. Methanol is s

Careful! Analogs can be very different in toxicity and other properties: some people drink ethanol on a daily basis, and damage is relatively low. Methanol is similar, but is very toxic and can damage and kill you easily. R-Thalidomide is used as anti-inflamatory and sedative, L-Thalidomide is teratogenic; and what is worse, one form can switch into the other form. The difference between Morphine and Codeine is minimal: a H is changed to a CH3. But one is 10x stronger than the other. In fact, morphine is more similar to codeine than to heroin. There is another opioid called Oripavine, similar to morphine (and can be transformed easily into), that is known to also have analgesic effects, but can't be used because it's highly toxic. It can itself be derived to M320, which is around 10000x more potent than morphine. In the opioid large family we could do this all day, with analogs and very similar molecules having a wild range of potency and toxicity. Don't use similarity between derivatives as a guide or a scale of their potential toxicity. I agree that the easiest and safest way to deal with this is to just legalize all drugs. IMO that will have at least two desirable effects: you will know exactly what you are consuming instead of betting on a derivative, and the race after analogs will stop: people will just consume what is known to be safe and effective, as it happens with alcohol.

dusted 2y ago
Funny thing with codine is that it's metabolized into morphine, and this happens at vastly different rates, from "not effective as a treatment" to "somewhat high risk of abuse due to euphoria"
LoganDark 2y ago
> I agree that the easiest and safest way to deal with this is to just legalize all drugs. IMO that will have at least two desirable effects: you will know exactly what you are consuming instead of betting on a derivative, and the race after analogs will stop: people will just consume what is known to be safe and effective, as it happens with alcohol. Amen. I'll be happy once I can pick up, say, LSD, from a pharmacy, and know that it's dosed accurately and unadulterated. Right now one would kinda have to buy it from either some guy or some darknet vendor and the only way to know it's safe is to test it with reagents. Those who don't test it run the risk of dying or suffering permanent damage from overdosing on some adulterant or substitute. It would probably also help with the current opioid crisis where people are dying because their doses are adulterated with fentanyl. Just offer doses that don't have fentanyl in it! Let people buy it from a safe regulated source.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  > and the only way to know it's safe is to test it with reagents The reagent tests will give you an idea of whether what you’re looking for is there (maybe), but generally won’t tell you much about what else might be in there too. If you have access to a reliable mail system, sending it away to a lab is your best test (but probably at a cost). And even then, they may not be able to detect or identify things not in their library.
  - freeopinion 2y ago
    On top of that, you would have to test every single dose because there is no assurance of any consistency. In the end this is all super sketch and risky, even with a lot of education and state-of-the-art testing facilities.
  - LoganDark 2y ago
    Ehrlich's reagent on its own can only tell you that LSD is present, but usually it's recommended to use multiple reagents to confirm that nothing else is present as well.
    - Scoundreller 2y ago
      And even then, there are other substances that can give you a false-positive on Ehrlich's
  - brnaftr361 2y ago
    What's the legality like on this? I know there's a comprehensive testing lab in Spain, but I feel like shipping LSD across the US via the postal system alone is a multiple felony, not to mention overseas travel? Is there a legal exception to this or is it just done on faith?
    - Scoundreller 2y ago
      watch your DNA droppings/fingerprints and don't put down a return address. Dunno how illegal it is to submit something that you're actually not sure of the legality of until you get the results.
pixl97 2y ago
Chirality is a fun one too. "Same" molecule but in the left/right hand version can have effects from nothing at all to super deadly cancer causing agent. Your buddies in their bathtub lab would have no idea if they are making them or not.

dusted 2y ago

Funny thing with codine is that it's metabolized into morphine, and this happens at vastly different rates, from "not effective as a treatment" to "somewhat high risk of abuse due to euphoria"

LoganDark 2y ago

> I agree that the easiest and safest way to deal with this is to just legalize all drugs. IMO that will have at least two desirable effects: you will know exactly what you are consuming instead of betting on a derivative, and the race after analogs will stop: people will just consume what is known to be safe and effective, as it happens with alcohol. Amen. I'll be happy once I can pick up, say, LSD, from a pharmacy, and know that it's dosed accurately and unadulterated. Right now one would kinda have to buy it from either some guy or some darknet vendor and the only way to know it's safe is to test it with reagents. Those who don't test it run the risk of dying or suffering permanent damage from overdosing on some adulterant or substitute. It would probably also help with the current opioid crisis where people are dying because their doses are adulterated with fentanyl. Just offer doses that don't have fentanyl in it! Let people buy it from a safe regulated source.

Scoundreller 2y ago
> and the only way to know it's safe is to test it with reagents The reagent tests will give you an idea of whether what you’re looking for is there (maybe), but generally won’t tell you much about what else might be in there too. If you have access to a reliable mail system, sending it away to a lab is your best test (but probably at a cost). And even then, they may not be able to detect or identify things not in their library.
- freeopinion 2y ago
  On top of that, you would have to test every single dose because there is no assurance of any consistency. In the end this is all super sketch and risky, even with a lot of education and state-of-the-art testing facilities.
- LoganDark 2y ago
  Ehrlich's reagent on its own can only tell you that LSD is present, but usually it's recommended to use multiple reagents to confirm that nothing else is present as well.
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    And even then, there are other substances that can give you a false-positive on Ehrlich's
- brnaftr361 2y ago
  What's the legality like on this? I know there's a comprehensive testing lab in Spain, but I feel like shipping LSD across the US via the postal system alone is a multiple felony, not to mention overseas travel? Is there a legal exception to this or is it just done on faith?
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    watch your DNA droppings/fingerprints and don't put down a return address. Dunno how illegal it is to submit something that you're actually not sure of the legality of until you get the results.

pixl97 2y ago

Chirality is a fun one too. "Same" molecule but in the left/right hand version can have effects from nothing at all to super deadly cancer causing agent. Your buddies in their bathtub lab would have no idea if they are making them or not.