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I agree, from my perspective as an outside engineer, Google went from a place where it'd have been interesting to work at a few years ago, to not being in the T

I agree, from my perspective as an outside engineer, Google went from a place where it'd have been interesting to work at a few years ago, to not being in the Top 5. Microsoft, OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta, Apple, NVIDIA, etc are just more compelling stories at the moment. I don't even know what Google is doing at this point.

VirusNewbie 2y ago
>Microsoft, OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta, Apple, NVIDIA So OpenAI and Anthropic are decacorns that are paying far far more than any FAANG so it's hard to compare them. Meta, Apple, Nvidia, sure, I can understand the sentiment, even if I don't completely agree. You see a lot of people shuffling between Apple and Google so it's probably org/team dependent. Meta pays the most of FAANGs so they certainly have a lot of talent. Microsoft is not even close to being on the same level. I did multiple interview loops there and I can't say enough negative things about the company. Every other FAANG company pays more and values talent and intellect higher than microsoft does. The only employee I met at Microsoft in my interview loops I was impressed by is now...at OpenAI.
- what_ever 2y ago
  How does anyone have Microsoft in their list of top employers is hard to understand. Is Microsoft a good company? Probably. Is it a good employer that cares about the employees and pays well? Nope. Not even with the stock price run up.
- what_ever 2y ago
  > So OpenAI and Anthropic are decacorns that are paying far far more than any FAANG so it's hard to compare them. Is it actual money though? Specially with OpenAI's PPUs.
  - VirusNewbie 2y ago
    It sounds like there are liquidity events, so it's not like they have to wait years to cash out.
nostrademons 2y ago
Google went to being a work/life balance company around 2017/2018. I remember talking with an ex-colleague about it at that time. (Ironically, back then I was off founding startups and he was working at Google, while now he's laid off and I'm back at Google.) IMHO interesting CS work today is being done at OpenAI and Anthropic in the machine-learning space, the Ethereum Foundation and maybe Polygon or Cardano in the crypto space, and that's pretty much it. FANGs have not been hot in a decade. Google is where you go to have babies. Amazon is where you go to get a FANG on your resume. Apple is where you go to join a cult and enjoy a continually-rising stock price as a result. Meta is where you go if you want more money and are willing to be morally flexible to get it. Microsoft is...Microsoft, but they're getting pretty good at the continually rising stock price like Apple, so there's that. Netflix isn't even a FANG anymore, and NVidia doesn't treat their software engineers particularly well since hardware is their core competency.
- refulgentis 2y ago
  This is a really good comment, so much in-knowledge that took me years to grok. My tenure sounds like roughly your friends: I did a startup, sold, then 7 years at G from late 2016 on. Curious if you have any similar wisdom about startup life / opportunities. I was a completely different person when I did the startup: 21 year old, econ dropout, waiter, taught myself to program to make an iPad app to replace the restaurant computer while living at my moms house in a dying Rust Belt town. Feels a lot different / a tightrope when I'm paying Boston rent and 36, sometimes I worry I'm being obviously stupid
- anon291 2y ago
  > NVidia doesn't treat their software engineers particularly well since hardware is their core competency. Care to explain?

VirusNewbie 2y ago

>Microsoft, OpenAI, Anthropic, Meta, Apple, NVIDIA So OpenAI and Anthropic are decacorns that are paying far far more than any FAANG so it's hard to compare them. Meta, Apple, Nvidia, sure, I can understand the sentiment, even if I don't completely agree. You see a lot of people shuffling between Apple and Google so it's probably org/team dependent. Meta pays the most of FAANGs so they certainly have a lot of talent. Microsoft is not even close to being on the same level. I did multiple interview loops there and I can't say enough negative things about the company. Every other FAANG company pays more and values talent and intellect higher than microsoft does. The only employee I met at Microsoft in my interview loops I was impressed by is now...at OpenAI.

what_ever 2y ago
How does anyone have Microsoft in their list of top employers is hard to understand. Is Microsoft a good company? Probably. Is it a good employer that cares about the employees and pays well? Nope. Not even with the stock price run up.
what_ever 2y ago
> So OpenAI and Anthropic are decacorns that are paying far far more than any FAANG so it's hard to compare them. Is it actual money though? Specially with OpenAI's PPUs.
- VirusNewbie 2y ago
  It sounds like there are liquidity events, so it's not like they have to wait years to cash out.

nostrademons 2y ago

Google went to being a work/life balance company around 2017/2018. I remember talking with an ex-colleague about it at that time. (Ironically, back then I was off founding startups and he was working at Google, while now he's laid off and I'm back at Google.) IMHO interesting CS work today is being done at OpenAI and Anthropic in the machine-learning space, the Ethereum Foundation and maybe Polygon or Cardano in the crypto space, and that's pretty much it. FANGs have not been hot in a decade. Google is where you go to have babies. Amazon is where you go to get a FANG on your resume. Apple is where you go to join a cult and enjoy a continually-rising stock price as a result. Meta is where you go if you want more money and are willing to be morally flexible to get it. Microsoft is...Microsoft, but they're getting pretty good at the continually rising stock price like Apple, so there's that. Netflix isn't even a FANG anymore, and NVidia doesn't treat their software engineers particularly well since hardware is their core competency.

refulgentis 2y ago
This is a really good comment, so much in-knowledge that took me years to grok. My tenure sounds like roughly your friends: I did a startup, sold, then 7 years at G from late 2016 on. Curious if you have any similar wisdom about startup life / opportunities. I was a completely different person when I did the startup: 21 year old, econ dropout, waiter, taught myself to program to make an iPad app to replace the restaurant computer while living at my moms house in a dying Rust Belt town. Feels a lot different / a tightrope when I'm paying Boston rent and 36, sometimes I worry I'm being obviously stupid
anon291 2y ago
> NVidia doesn't treat their software engineers particularly well since hardware is their core competency. Care to explain?