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Chinese-born chemist cleared of last conviction under US’s espionage probe
- crescit_eundo 2y agohttps://archive.ph/kBcaq https://archive.ph/kBcaq
- darthrupert 2y agoThe difference between our system and theirs: in here, people are usually let go if they are shown not to be guilty.
- paganel 2y agoNot sure the Americans are in any position to preach when it comes to their incarceration and capital punishment policies.
- allemagne 2y agoIn comparison to the People's Republic of China?
- yardie 2y agoIn comparison to the country that shoots you in the face for being the wrong skin color?
- mensetmanusman 2y agoThose occur at about the statistics of airplane crashes. Huge disasters obviously, but it’s a function of our policy of everyone having a gun.
- pessimizer 2y agoYou can't really compare the two countries. The US has 4x (531/100k) the number of prisoners per capita that China (119/100k) has.
- dmix 2y agoAnd crime in almost every category is 3-18x higher (+ 83x more assaults than China) https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/China/United-States/Crime https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/China/Unit... The only category china ranks higher in is corruption and bribery and oddly the number of judges and prosecutors employed.
- Schiendelman 2y agoThe definition of assault and the reporting rate are completely different. You can’t compare those numbers just looking them up on the Internet.
- simmerup 2y agoAtleast they don’t let corrupt prison officers harvest their prisoners organs
- sauruk 2y agoIs this even a standard worth comparing ourselves to? That’s a bar so low that “at least we don’t …” doesn’t even make sense
- braincat31415 2y agoWhich makes it ok.
- janice1999 2y agoThere's literally a prison organ theft scandal ongoing in Alabama at the moment. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/18/us/organs-removed-deceased-alabama-inmates/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/18/us/organs-removed-decease...
- snapcaster 2y agoYeah they do sadly :(
- buran77 2y agoThis wasn't an "honest mistake" conviction. Trying to turn a complete embarrassment of a legal process, driven by a racially biased witch hunt into a moral win is like saying that "in here we rape you with lube and a condom". What's even better than correcting mistakes and feeling warm and fuzzy inside because you're better than some of the worst is to not make them in the first place, at least when they're as avoidable as this one.
- aziaziazi 2y agoAlso, you better got some dollar to merit the lube. From his gofoundme last update: > America has a great legal system if only you can afford it
- fooker 2y agoAs opposed to 'disappeared', for suspected espionage?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- wheels 2y agoIt's pretty revolting that you would turn this into a narrative of American exceptionalism.
- perihelions 2y agoThat's not entirely true. You can be found factually innocent, and still be unable to escape prison—due to the utterly Kafkaesque nature of the legal system. Here's a case I read about over a decade ago, and never forgot: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-aug-21-la-me-innocent-20120821-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-aug-21-la-me-in... ("Man behind bars 2 years after judge orders release" (2012)) - "But two years after he was supposed to be released, Larsen remains behind bars while the California attorney general appeals the decision. The state’s main argument: He did not file his legal paperwork seeking release on time."
- tetromino_ 2y agoThe next paragraph deserves to be quoted also: > California Atty. Gen.Kamala D. Harris, whose office maintains that evidence still points to Larsen’s guilt, accuses him and his attorneys of filing a petition seeking his release more than six years after he was legally required to do so. Prosecutors question whether the judges had the authority to hear Larsen’s petition for release.
- Schiendelman 2y agoBut sometimes it turns out to be “we found a friendly judge much later who was willing to break the law for us”. We don’t know.
- modo_mario 2y agoIf he hadn't had loads of money to fight this for ages he would have been rotting in jail right now. Perhaps the solitary confinement he was put in initially.
- hiddencost 2y ago$1M in remaining debt, lost his professorship and 2 years of research... I think he deserves punitive damages.
- buran77 2y ago> I think he deserves punitive damages Yes... Come 2025 he may just have to pay them.
- dlivingston 2y agoReading through the GoFundMe updates is heartbreaking: https://www.gofundme.com/f/Legal-Defense-Fund-for-Franklin-Tao https://www.gofundme.com/f/Legal-Defense-Fund-for-Franklin-T...
- lossolo 2y agoIndeed, this quote hits hard: "The past five years have felt like navigating the valley of death. Franklin and I, like many of you in the Asian community, came to the USA to pursue our dream through intelligence and hard work. We wanted to contribute to all facets of this land, particularly in research, while expecting in return basic respect. Despite life not always aligning with our hopes, I am glad we have stood up against political and arbitrary manipulations targeting scholars of Asian origin. The success of our appeal marks a significant milestone, and we deeply appreciate the support from all of you. Your unwavering support has been invaluable throughout this ordeal, and Franklin and I are truly grateful for everything you have done. This hard-fought win would not have been possible without your steadfast commitment. However, it is a bittersweet win. The total cost of fighting these bogus charges for the past five years cost over $2.3 million, and we still carry over $1.1 million in debt despite your generous support. Franklin has not earned a salary for over four years. Our family is deeply in debt, and I kindly request your assistance with this remaining legal defense debt. Once again, thank you for your exceptional dedication and support. May GOD bless you and your family abundantly."
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- garou 2y ago[flagged]
- mitchbob 2y agoBackground: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/21/have-chinese-spies-infiltrated-american-campuses https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/21/have-chinese-s... (archived: https://archive.ph/5xUkU https://archive.ph/5xUkU )
- oicu812 2y agoThank you for the background. For those with the knee-jerk reaction without the full story, this case was based on a whistleblower providing allegations to the FBI. The whistleblower provided evidence of a contract between the professor and a Chinese university. The FBI investigation collaborated that evidence, including fifteen trips to China in three years. That is why this case was brought to trial. He was not exonerated on the false statements charge. Instead, the appeals court found it was immaterial by a 2-1 decision. This professor got a doctorate from Princeton and did a postdoc at Berkeley. He knew the rules for working on NSF and DOE grants. He didn't deserve all the happened to him, but he did lie and cover-up his connections with a Chinese university.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y agoHe didn't "lie and cover-up his connections with a Chinese university." His "connections" were extremely minimal and not relevant to any of his grant applications, so he wasn't required to disclose them. > That is why this case was brought to trial. This case was brought to trial because Tao is Asian, and the Trump administration put out an order to local FBI offices to find Chinese spies in academia. In other words, Tao was swept up in a racist witch hunt. If he were a white European, there is precisely 0% chance that he would have been investigated and prosecuted for these sorts of minimal "connections" to a European university.
- segasaturn 2y ago>In 2019, the United States Department of Justice indicted Tao for 'failing to disclose conflict of interest with a Chinese university' .. The evidence used by the Department of Justice was obtained after Tao was reported to the FBI for alleged espionage by a vengeful co-author, who presented manufactured evidence to the FBI. Based on this evidence, the FBI obtained a search warrant. Tao was subsequently indicted for an email regarding a contract to teach in China, but not for alleged espionage I don't even understand how any of this is illegal? You can be thrown in prison and have your reputation and career ruined by the government for sending an email to someone in China now?
- 99_00 2y agoHe was taking money from the department of energy for research while collaborating with Chinese universities and did not disclose this and lied to investigators about it.
- hermannj314 2y agoIsn't that the charge he was cleared for?
- dralley 2y agoHe was cleared of espionage. He was not cleared for lying about the conflict of interest.
- Leary 2y agoThat conviction was overturned a week ago[1] [1] https://cen.acs.org/research-integrity/misconduct/Court-overturns-conviction-chemist-Feng/102/web/2024/07 https://cen.acs.org/research-integrity/misconduct/Court-over...
- psychoslave 2y agoLOL. Because those that make these laws pass and participate in the witch hunt turned into a justice show never lied about conflict of interest, what actual agenda they have in mind, and how much they really care abouto serving humanity best interests.
- questhimay 2y ago[dead]
- bxparks 2y agoReminds me of another FBI espionage case that fell apart years ago... found it, Wen Ho Lee, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Ho_Lee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Ho_Lee: "A federal grand jury indicted him on charges of stealing secrets about the U.S. nuclear arsenal for the People's Republic of China (PRC) in December 1999.[1] After federal investigators were unable to prove these initial accusations, the government conducted a separate investigation. Ultimately it charged Lee only with improper handling of restricted data, one of the original 59 indictment counts, a felony count. He pleaded guilty as part of a plea settlement. He filed a civil suit that was settled. In June 2006, Lee received $1.6 million from the federal government and five media organizations as part of a settlement leaking his name to the press before any charges had been filed against him.[2] Federal judge James A. Parker eventually apologized to Lee for denying him bail and putting him in solitary confinement. He excoriated the government for misconduct and misrepresentations to the court.[3] "
- perihelions 2y agoA more recent case involved an attempted prosecution of an MIT professor. Going off journalistic reporting [0], the whole case was baseless—built on an incorrect understanding of key facts—and involved prosecutorial misconduct (illegal withholding of possibly exculpatory evidence). [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/gang-chen-charges-drop-china/2022/01/14/51bae1e2-6f59-11ec-b9fc-b394d592a7a6_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/gang-chen-c... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Chen_(engineer)#Federal_indictment_and_ensuing_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Chen_(engineer)#Federal_i... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30082313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30082313 ("In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist"; 446 comments)
- javiramos 2y agoHe was my thermodynamics professor. Seriously great guy and it pains me to hear what he had to go through.
- complaintdept 2y ago> (illegal withholding of possibly exculpatory evidence) I hear about this sort of thing way too often. I say we make a new law that if prosecutors pull shit like this they get sentenced to triple the jail time/financial penalty the defendant would have had, if convicted, and pay triple the legal expenses to defendant as well. This multiplier is often used in the law as deterrent where a 1x multiplier is not deemed sufficient for the total damage and inconvenience caused. Seriously, how can anyone be expected to trust the legal system when the state pulls shit like that without any consequences? If course, this will likely mean prosecutors will start destroying exculpatory evidence when possible.
- IronWolve 2y agoThink the real problem is innocent people are caught because the PRC does much spying (so does every country), so a few innocent people are falsely accused and convicted also. Figure about 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases, its just the way the world works sadly.
- no_exit 2y ago> Figure about 10-15% of people are innocent in criminal cases Much higher than that in these particular cases, as noted in an article linked in OP: > A recent white paper by a non-partisan organisation of prominent Chinese Americans in business, government, academia and the arts, examined information on nearly 300 defendants charged under the US Economic Espionage Act (EEA) between 1996 and 2020 [...] found that 27% of presumed Asian American citizens charged under the EEA were not convicted of any crimes. In total, the analysis showed that one in three Asian Americans alleged to have committed espionage may have been falsely accused. And I don't think the feds have had a better record 2020-present.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- bilbo0s 2y agoIf the bar is people who are arrested but "were not convicted of any crimes", then yeah, the number is a whole lot higher for everyone. I'd estimate the 10-15% figure is for the people who are sent to prison. 10-15% of them are likely innocent. (Maybe more for certain demographics if it is easy to convict that demographic of crime.). But the percentage of arrests that do not lead to a conviction is astronomical. To a certain extent, mass arrest and detainment, even of the innocent, is just how the system works. It shouldn't work that way. But it is the reality on the ground right now. Not only that, but it's very hard to change for a lot of reasons.
- thyrsus 2y agoNot to mention the innocent folks who calculate that their lives will be least damaged by a plea bargain.
- nimbius 2y agothis new red scare has the potential to backfire just as spectacularly as it did in the 1950s, when it ended up landing a big win for Chinas ICBM program. https://radii.co/article/its-not-rocket-science-except-when-it-is-the-strange-case-of-qian-xuesen https://radii.co/article/its-not-rocket-science-except-when-... we sentenced Qian to house arrest with zero evidence or charges, and in return Under Qian’s direction, Chinese researchers developed the first generation of “Long March” missiles and in 1970 supervised the launch of Chia’s first satellite. “I do not plan to come back,” Qian bitterly told a reporter as he prepared to leave the country. “I have no reason to come back…. I plan to do my best to help the Chinese people build up the nation to where they can live with dignity and happiness.”
- justinclift 2y agoWonder how many people the UK screwed over with Brexit that now feel similarly towards the UK?
- HarryHirsch 2y agoThis should not be downvoted. My undergraduate advisor had a vicious hatred for Margaret Thatcher and the 1981 cuts that caused him to seek employment abroad.
- justinclift 2y agoYeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. For me, the UK government quite literally took away my EU citizenship. Something I was making use of, and had significant life plans for. I am far fucking beyond not impressed about that. In the meantime I've returned to Australia and am getting things done here.
- Simorgh 2y agoThis is a serious point. I knew dozens of high-skilled tech-based Europeans who left the UK due to Brexit and felt both hurt and offended.
- akira2501 2y ago
- empath75 2y agoI can't take the US cracking down on Chinese intellectual property theft seriously when we've been moving all of our manufacturing to China since the 1990s with the full help and support of the US government. There's nothing a random researcher could steal that could do a fraction of the amount of damage that that economic policy did to the US economy and society.
- modo_mario 2y agoI notably remembered a story that ran across several vlogs of some guy that went to an american company to have his patented invention put on the shelves. They'd handle manufacturing and all that in cooperation with a chinese manufacturer. The deal fell trough. Later he found the deal on the shelves in wallmart. Made in china. The original company or at least the people that answered acted like they didn't know of anything but he dug deep and found that no.... He wasn't being cheated out of his IP by some chinese manufacturer that ran with the design. That factory had no clue that they were breaking any law. The original American company had gone behind his back. I also remember similar stories about crying of backstabbing and IP theft in China from some US company that was kickstarting. (I don't remember if it was an actual kickstarter campaign or bigger money involved) Turns out some later digging showed their bs was the clear reason for the broken ties and they had signed off IP and sales rights to try and squeeze out a cheaper deal. (If they suddenly reneged on their large orders the chinese manufacturer could sell the stock themselves and continue with the new dies they'd made and machine they'd bought for the deal) It's real damn easy to pin everything on china with the language and distance barrier and they definitely do some heinous shit but disappointingly often enough it seems like our own doing here in Europe or the US coated in stereotypes or geopolitical rhetoric.
- akira2501 2y ago> That factory had no clue that they were breaking any law. The violation of the law occurred when they shipped it internationally. I doubt they were "clueless" about the potential problems involved. I seriously doubt the receiver of the goods was either.
- humanlity 2y agoAs a Chinese person, I have a question: Is it considered a political mistake to mention one’s Chinese background in narratives in the United States?
- defrost 2y agoIn the sense of American nationals will berate you for being Chinese and limit your employment opportunities, or in the sense of other Chinese Nationals relaying your really very funny Winnie the Pooh joke back home to China and connecting it to any family you have there? I can't speak for the US but I can say that Chinese people in Australia have had issues after returning to China as a result of things said here in Australia.
- humanlity 2y agoI know you, bro. Take care.
- eunos 2y agoAll of these witch hunts deliver more talents back to mainland than any 1000 talents program
- yijjb 2y ago[flagged]
- micheal0147 2y ago[dead]