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Is it not friendly and normal to ask young wait staff what they are studying on the assumption that they are students earning their way though college? (And mo

Is it not friendly and normal to ask young wait staff what they are studying on the assumption that they are students earning their way though college? (And most young wait staff are? Except for California, where they are aspiring actors?)

paulcole 2y ago
Ask yourself the underlying reason for that assumption? Is it because you can’t imagine someone wanting to be a barista?
imtringued 2y ago
I couldn't think of something more unfriendly. You're assuming that every town is a college town. You're implying that you're willing to be a customer at a place that is so undesirable to work at, that the only reason the staff work this job is that they are lacking alternatives and want to get away from this job as soon as possible. Finally, if they aren't studying anything then you are basically telling them that they are stuck in a dead end job. How friendly!
- moralestapia 2y ago
  >I couldn't think of something more unfriendly. A punch to the face. There you go. Asking a young folk if/what are they studying is not unfriendly at all. I am the kind of person that engages in conversations with people around me and I have a never had a negative experience from that, quite the opposite, plenty of times I ended up having a joyful conversation where we both learn things about each other's.
  - atoav 2y ago
    Yeah IF they are studying. If not you are basically telling them they suck for being in that job and not studying. The fact that many people wouldn't even consider that possibility is telling.
    - pixxel 2y ago
      We should all stay at home and STFU. JFC.
      - atoav 2y ago
        Nah, just be empathic and don't push your assumptions onto other people. Talking to people is fine, if they want to talk. Asking people stuff is fine, if your questions are sensitive and don't bore them. E.g. asking someone who looks different "which country they are from" that is neither sensitive (you are pushing the assumption they have to be from a different country because they look different) and probably boring (they have heard that a hundred times). Talking to people is fine, just consider what assumption you're pushing onto others and why that might suck for them and you're good.
    - moralestapia 2y ago
      >If not you are basically telling them they suck for being in that job and not studying. Not at all. There's literally nothing wrong with asking people if they're studying something or not.
      - atoav 2y ago
        Imagine you are a young woman that dropped out of high school, the best job you ever found is waiting at whatever coffe joint there was in your town. You have seen some similar aged collegues come and go, for most of them the job was a short term job to support their studies. Once a week some customer asks you what you study. How would you feel about that when it happens for the 50th time? This is not empathy-rocket science.
        dzhiurgis 2y ago
        I'd feel real and own it... One shouldn't be upset by reality or some stranger assuming something. That's part of the reality and others shouldn't be walking on egg shells.
        2y ago
  - CoastalCoder 2y ago
    > Asking a young folk if/what are they studying is not unfriendly at all. I am the kind of person that engages in conversations with people around me and I have a never had a negative experience from that, But perhaps they had a negative experience from your words? If you're a paying customer, their ability to make housing and car payments may hinge on being polite to customers like you, no matter how rude. With power dynamics like that, you can't necessarily know if you've offended them.
JadeNB 2y ago
> Is it not friendly and normal to ask young wait staff what they are studying on the assumption that they are students earning their way though college? I think any "… on the assumption that …" is going to cause trouble on a sufficiently large sample size, so why make the assumption? > And most young wait staff are? Except for California, where they are aspiring actors? How do you know? But note also that the author is specifically referring to older waitstaff ("There is an assumption in this country that wait staff above a certain age are where they are because they lack the skills or gumption to “get a proper job”")—and also that this is about the UK, whereas it sounds like you might be thinking about the US.
CoastalCoder 2y ago
Here's the issue, I think (as discussed in a sibling comment): If you're right about them being a student, it's pleasant small talk. If you're wrong about them being a student, you may be highlighting the fact that they're in a dead end, low income career path. The second case is sufficiently painful and likely, that it's probably a bad idea to lead with this question.
throwanem 2y ago
What the hell business of mine would it be to ask a question as nosy as that?
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Exactly. The best reason not to ask is that it's personal and none of the customer's business! And it's usually not innocent small talk. For a lot of status-conscious people, the purpose of asking the question (and other similar ones) is to suss out exactly where that other person is on the social status totem pole, so you know how far "beneath you" you can treat them.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    Or telling someone whats good or bad to study since you have years of experience (FWIW). Or find out what people study these days. What is new in universities, to learn something themselves.
    - klohto 2y ago
      You genuinely believe someone wants to hear your opinion on what they study? You're a complete stranger, I don't care how much years of experience you have.
      - dzhiurgis 2y ago
        And that's why you are barista... Ultimately it's up to you what you do with that information.
sudosays 2y ago
IIUC think the article is saying that the assumption is the issue. That the default is to assume that working in the service industry is only a stepping stone and therefore less valuable.
atoav 2y ago
That would be as if your client asked you, a professional freelancer, what you are doing for a living. The question carries an assumption within itself, namely that your work (quality, kind of work) can't possibly sustain you. Aimilarily if you ask staff that your assumption is that this can't possibly be a work that anybody would ever like to do voluntarily.

paulcole 2y ago

Ask yourself the underlying reason for that assumption? Is it because you can’t imagine someone wanting to be a barista?

imtringued 2y ago

I couldn't think of something more unfriendly. You're assuming that every town is a college town. You're implying that you're willing to be a customer at a place that is so undesirable to work at, that the only reason the staff work this job is that they are lacking alternatives and want to get away from this job as soon as possible. Finally, if they aren't studying anything then you are basically telling them that they are stuck in a dead end job. How friendly!

moralestapia 2y ago
>I couldn't think of something more unfriendly. A punch to the face. There you go. Asking a young folk if/what are they studying is not unfriendly at all. I am the kind of person that engages in conversations with people around me and I have a never had a negative experience from that, quite the opposite, plenty of times I ended up having a joyful conversation where we both learn things about each other's.
- atoav 2y ago
  Yeah IF they are studying. If not you are basically telling them they suck for being in that job and not studying. The fact that many people wouldn't even consider that possibility is telling.
  - pixxel 2y ago
    We should all stay at home and STFU. JFC.
    - atoav 2y ago
      Nah, just be empathic and don't push your assumptions onto other people. Talking to people is fine, if they want to talk. Asking people stuff is fine, if your questions are sensitive and don't bore them. E.g. asking someone who looks different "which country they are from" that is neither sensitive (you are pushing the assumption they have to be from a different country because they look different) and probably boring (they have heard that a hundred times). Talking to people is fine, just consider what assumption you're pushing onto others and why that might suck for them and you're good.
  - moralestapia 2y ago
    >If not you are basically telling them they suck for being in that job and not studying. Not at all. There's literally nothing wrong with asking people if they're studying something or not.
    - atoav 2y ago
      Imagine you are a young woman that dropped out of high school, the best job you ever found is waiting at whatever coffe joint there was in your town. You have seen some similar aged collegues come and go, for most of them the job was a short term job to support their studies. Once a week some customer asks you what you study. How would you feel about that when it happens for the 50th time? This is not empathy-rocket science.
      - dzhiurgis 2y ago
        I'd feel real and own it... One shouldn't be upset by reality or some stranger assuming something. That's part of the reality and others shouldn't be walking on egg shells.
        2y ago
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  > Asking a young folk if/what are they studying is not unfriendly at all. I am the kind of person that engages in conversations with people around me and I have a never had a negative experience from that, But perhaps they had a negative experience from your words? If you're a paying customer, their ability to make housing and car payments may hinge on being polite to customers like you, no matter how rude. With power dynamics like that, you can't necessarily know if you've offended them.

JadeNB 2y ago

> Is it not friendly and normal to ask young wait staff what they are studying on the assumption that they are students earning their way though college? I think any "… on the assumption that …" is going to cause trouble on a sufficiently large sample size, so why make the assumption? > And most young wait staff are? Except for California, where they are aspiring actors? How do you know? But note also that the author is specifically referring to older waitstaff ("There is an assumption in this country that wait staff above a certain age are where they are because they lack the skills or gumption to “get a proper job”")—and also that this is about the UK, whereas it sounds like you might be thinking about the US.

CoastalCoder 2y ago

Here's the issue, I think (as discussed in a sibling comment): If you're right about them being a student, it's pleasant small talk. If you're wrong about them being a student, you may be highlighting the fact that they're in a dead end, low income career path. The second case is sufficiently painful and likely, that it's probably a bad idea to lead with this question.

throwanem 2y ago

What the hell business of mine would it be to ask a question as nosy as that?

ryandrake 2y ago
Exactly. The best reason not to ask is that it's personal and none of the customer's business! And it's usually not innocent small talk. For a lot of status-conscious people, the purpose of asking the question (and other similar ones) is to suss out exactly where that other person is on the social status totem pole, so you know how far "beneath you" you can treat them.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Or telling someone whats good or bad to study since you have years of experience (FWIW). Or find out what people study these days. What is new in universities, to learn something themselves.
  - klohto 2y ago
    You genuinely believe someone wants to hear your opinion on what they study? You're a complete stranger, I don't care how much years of experience you have.
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      And that's why you are barista... Ultimately it's up to you what you do with that information.

sudosays 2y ago

IIUC think the article is saying that the assumption is the issue. That the default is to assume that working in the service industry is only a stepping stone and therefore less valuable.

atoav 2y ago

That would be as if your client asked you, a professional freelancer, what you are doing for a living. The question carries an assumption within itself, namely that your work (quality, kind of work) can't possibly sustain you. Aimilarily if you ask staff that your assumption is that this can't possibly be a work that anybody would ever like to do voluntarily.