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And you still regulate it, just differently. The implied conclusion that regulation makes things expensive is wrong, and comparing the air travel market over h

And you still regulate it, just differently. The implied conclusion that regulation makes things expensive is wrong, and comparing the air travel market over half a century ago with the market today, and crediting a change made in 1978 for the difference doesn’t make sense. EU air travel is quite regulated with e.g. consumer rights for cash compensation, hotel and food service in case of delay, and yet air travel reached a point some years before covid where some providers played with the thought of having tickets be free - the main source of income for the airlines was in duty-free on either end of the journey anyway, so more travelers meant more revenue even if their tickets were zero. Disallowing discriminatory and unfair business practices is not the same as having the government set travel prices.

shiroiushi 2y ago
Maybe the answer is for the US government to not regulate these things, but instead somehow allow the EU to regulate them on US soil. (No, I have no idea how that would work legally.) Because when the EU regulates things like this, the result is usually pretty good. But when the US regulates things, it turns into regulatory capture and only helps the big corporations at the expense of everyone else. It's a bit like unions: Americans complain about how bad labor unions are, because in the US they didn't work out very well at all. But Europeans like unions, because over there they seem to work pretty well. So obviously, the US just can't do unions properly, just like they can't do a lot of regulation properly (see: FAA/Boeing).
- nicoburns 2y ago
  And of course it's circular: The US doesn't do things like well because Americans don't trust their institutions and think governments are inherently corrupt and ineffective, so they think might as well join in (and then perpetuate that corruption/ineffectiveness).
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    > think governments are inherently corrupt and ineffective, so they think might as well join in (and then perpetuate that corruption/ineffectiveness). Sounds like the way countries typically considered "corrupt" probably work. But for some reason, Americans don't like to think of their country as being as corrupt as someplace like [random central American country], despite evidence to the contrary.
jermaustin1 2y ago
Flying budget air carriers is already so incredibly cheap in the EU. It is cheaper to fly from Belfast to London, than it is to fly Houston to Austin (half the distance) or Houston to New Orleans (roughly the same distance). I wish the US could figure that out.
- AlchemistCamp 2y ago
  Houston to Austin only takes a couple of hours to drive. Flying would be slower, more hassle, way more polluting and more cramped.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    Heh, reminds me of the saying: An Englishman thinks a hundred miles is a long way; and American thinks a hundred years is a long time. Houston to Austin seems to take 50 minutes by flight vs. 2 hours and 30 minutes by car. That's not the best convenience ratio for a domestic flight (going between the two largest cities in Denmark is 40 minutes by air vs. over 3 hours by car), and it's certainly more expensive... However, whether it's more polluting actually depends on a lot of things. Comparing a fully booked, modern commercial passenger plane vs. a car carrying a single person usually has the airplane coming out on top (heh). A modern car with all seats occupied beats the airplane though. (A naturally aspirated V8 without direct fuel injection leads to a divide by zero in any efficiency calculations.)
    - AlchemistCamp 2y ago
      Just remember to leave early enough to arrive at the airport 90 minutes before your scheduled departure time ;)
      - gottorf 2y ago
        And don't forget to factor in that IAH is a 20 mile drive from downtown Houston, and AUS is another 10 miles to downtown Austin! (Combined, that's about 1/5 of the driving distance between the two cities.)
yawnxyz 2y ago
I think they just want to bring back smoking on planes
Wytwwww 2y ago
> having tickets be free - the main source of income for the airlines was in duty-free on either end of the journey anyway I'm sure that was pretty far-fetched and not something actually viable. Considering duty-free isn't even a thing for most Ryanair/other cheap airline flights because they are inside the EU.
IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago
Can you cite examples of any industry or niche , anywhere in the world, that was newly regulated, and once regulation tool place, prices materially dropped? Geniuinely curious.
- jonahhorowitz 2y ago
  When California re-regulated the wholesale energy markets after the Enron debacle. Source: https://www.apep.uci.edu/PDF_Research_Summaries/Impact_Of_Electricity_Deregulation_In_The_State_Of_California_102119_719am.pdf https://www.apep.uci.edu/PDF_Research_Summaries/Impact_Of_El...
  - pixelatedindex 2y ago
    And now CA has gone full circle with how PG&E rules the roost over here. Outside of a few places, it’s very much a monopoly.
- nicoburns 2y ago
  Card payments are regulated in the EU, and prices are much cheaper. Contrast that with New Zealand where there is often a 2.5% surcharge on credit card and contactless payments.
- bald42 2y ago
  Phone roaming in EU. You pay your normal home fares now for voice/data instead of the former massive roaming surcharges.
- TylerE 2y ago
  Internet access after the telcos were forced to share their last mile fibre?
- NohatCoder 2y ago
  Telephone roaming charges in the EU.
- nickpsecurity 2y ago
  Everything about regulating Big Telecom. They didn’t want to run lines to people, drop long distance, increase broadband speed, etc. Each time, the behavior was countered by regulation or the threat of it. Splitting MA Bell into the Baby Bells also helped for a while. Then, they started merging back together. Then, the oligopolies made service worse again. If left on their own, they collude to do a minimum form of competition while cooperating on profitable ways to cheat customers. That’s called cartels. It’s as big a threat to the free market as governments.

shiroiushi 2y ago

Maybe the answer is for the US government to not regulate these things, but instead somehow allow the EU to regulate them on US soil. (No, I have no idea how that would work legally.) Because when the EU regulates things like this, the result is usually pretty good. But when the US regulates things, it turns into regulatory capture and only helps the big corporations at the expense of everyone else. It's a bit like unions: Americans complain about how bad labor unions are, because in the US they didn't work out very well at all. But Europeans like unions, because over there they seem to work pretty well. So obviously, the US just can't do unions properly, just like they can't do a lot of regulation properly (see: FAA/Boeing).

nicoburns 2y ago
And of course it's circular: The US doesn't do things like well because Americans don't trust their institutions and think governments are inherently corrupt and ineffective, so they think might as well join in (and then perpetuate that corruption/ineffectiveness).
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  > think governments are inherently corrupt and ineffective, so they think might as well join in (and then perpetuate that corruption/ineffectiveness). Sounds like the way countries typically considered "corrupt" probably work. But for some reason, Americans don't like to think of their country as being as corrupt as someplace like [random central American country], despite evidence to the contrary.

jermaustin1 2y ago

Flying budget air carriers is already so incredibly cheap in the EU. It is cheaper to fly from Belfast to London, than it is to fly Houston to Austin (half the distance) or Houston to New Orleans (roughly the same distance). I wish the US could figure that out.

AlchemistCamp 2y ago
Houston to Austin only takes a couple of hours to drive. Flying would be slower, more hassle, way more polluting and more cramped.
- arghwhat 2y ago
  Heh, reminds me of the saying: An Englishman thinks a hundred miles is a long way; and American thinks a hundred years is a long time. Houston to Austin seems to take 50 minutes by flight vs. 2 hours and 30 minutes by car. That's not the best convenience ratio for a domestic flight (going between the two largest cities in Denmark is 40 minutes by air vs. over 3 hours by car), and it's certainly more expensive... However, whether it's more polluting actually depends on a lot of things. Comparing a fully booked, modern commercial passenger plane vs. a car carrying a single person usually has the airplane coming out on top (heh). A modern car with all seats occupied beats the airplane though. (A naturally aspirated V8 without direct fuel injection leads to a divide by zero in any efficiency calculations.)
  - AlchemistCamp 2y ago
    Just remember to leave early enough to arrive at the airport 90 minutes before your scheduled departure time ;)
    - gottorf 2y ago
      And don't forget to factor in that IAH is a 20 mile drive from downtown Houston, and AUS is another 10 miles to downtown Austin! (Combined, that's about 1/5 of the driving distance between the two cities.)

yawnxyz 2y ago

I think they just want to bring back smoking on planes

Wytwwww 2y ago

> having tickets be free - the main source of income for the airlines was in duty-free on either end of the journey anyway I'm sure that was pretty far-fetched and not something actually viable. Considering duty-free isn't even a thing for most Ryanair/other cheap airline flights because they are inside the EU.

IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago

Can you cite examples of any industry or niche , anywhere in the world, that was newly regulated, and once regulation tool place, prices materially dropped? Geniuinely curious.

jonahhorowitz 2y ago
When California re-regulated the wholesale energy markets after the Enron debacle. Source: https://www.apep.uci.edu/PDF_Research_Summaries/Impact_Of_Electricity_Deregulation_In_The_State_Of_California_102119_719am.pdf https://www.apep.uci.edu/PDF_Research_Summaries/Impact_Of_El...
- pixelatedindex 2y ago
  And now CA has gone full circle with how PG&E rules the roost over here. Outside of a few places, it’s very much a monopoly.
nicoburns 2y ago
Card payments are regulated in the EU, and prices are much cheaper. Contrast that with New Zealand where there is often a 2.5% surcharge on credit card and contactless payments.
bald42 2y ago
Phone roaming in EU. You pay your normal home fares now for voice/data instead of the former massive roaming surcharges.
TylerE 2y ago
Internet access after the telcos were forced to share their last mile fibre?
NohatCoder 2y ago
Telephone roaming charges in the EU.
nickpsecurity 2y ago
Everything about regulating Big Telecom. They didn’t want to run lines to people, drop long distance, increase broadband speed, etc. Each time, the behavior was countered by regulation or the threat of it. Splitting MA Bell into the Baby Bells also helped for a while. Then, they started merging back together. Then, the oligopolies made service worse again. If left on their own, they collude to do a minimum form of competition while cooperating on profitable ways to cheat customers. That’s called cartels. It’s as big a threat to the free market as governments.