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This. The harmful decisions Rust made highlight its ingrained culture of doubling down on previous mistakes at all costs. There seems to be no reevaluation of
by simon_o 2y ago
This.
The harmful decisions Rust made highlight its ingrained culture of doubling down on previous mistakes at all costs.
There seems to be no reevaluation of the cost/benefit ratio once the "preferred approach" turns out to be non-viable.
"We want to have feature X, consequences be damned" is rarely a winning move in language design.
- api 2y agoTrue but I didn't just mean Rust... I meant virtually all async coding as a pattern.
- simon_o 2y agoAgreed, it's just that in Rust async/await hurts more than in e. g. JavaScript where the browser gives you enough hooks to have a "fresh start with(out) async".
- withoutboats3 2y ago[flagged]
- CyberDildonics 2y agoIs it 'despicable' just because you don't like what it says? You didn't do anything to refute it.
- simon_o 2y agoSome Rust people just have to be that dramatic.
- withoutboats3 2y agoI've written thousands of words on my blog about the design of async Rust, in which I carefully explain every decision and discuss the strong and weak points. This person regularly post rude low-effort comments like this one. My body of work should be enough to refute the idea that all I'm doing is doubling down.
- CyberDildonics 2y agoThis person regularly post rude low-effort comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41034778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41034778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41004954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41004954 My body of work should be enough This is a separate discussion, maybe you can put some of that body of work here.
- withoutboats3 2y agoThis is literally a thread about a post on my blog. If you can’t find my body of work, I cannot help you.
- CyberDildonics 2y agoIt's not about me finding anything, I'm saying that your expectations probably need to be adjusted. It seems like you thought you would post a one word title and have everyone just post compliments with no questions.
- withoutboats3 2y agoI didn't ask for this to be posted on Hacker News, genius. My engagement with this community is a generous use of my free time, but I do not suffer trolls and cranks like simon-o.
- CyberDildonics 2y agoMy engagement with this community is a generous use of my free time I think this attitude is a major problem. You wrote something public and here you have lots of attention and engagement and you think you're being "generous" by replying to people. If you don't want people to read it, take it down. If you don't want to engage with people on hacker news, just ignore the whole thing. Calling comments "despicable" with no explanation is not a great reaction to people giving your article the attention you wanted in the first place.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- redman25 2y agoI think he's talking about OS threads... it has nothing to do with rust's decisions.
- simon_o 2y agoIt has everything to do with Rust's decisions.
- TwentyPosts 2y agoTalking about a "decision" only makes sense if there's a reasonable alternative. Do you think "actually fixing" OS threads was a reasonable alternative? What would you prefer for a high performance abstraction instead of async?
- simon_o 2y agoI think there are some lessons that can be learned from Java's virtual thread approach – note that there is a huge gap in requirements and design trade-offs, especially around embedded, when compared to Rust. I'd just wager that the effort of getting something like that into shape is smaller than the costs of async/await. (And no, Rust's playing with green threads once 15 years ago and failing due to quality-of-implementation issues is not an excuse to dismiss everything that came after it off the bat.) Though it's probably not worth discussing this whole topic with Rust fans currently: Many made async/await part of their personality and have little experience to offer besides breathlessly pointing to one of the half dozen blog articles trying to defend async/await. It will take a few years until that language feature runs through all stages of grief and one can have an adult discussion about it.