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We expect young men to grow up and become "husband material". Due to various changes (standards for husbands rising, economic opportunity diminishing), this goa

by nikanj 2y ago

We expect young men to grow up and become "husband material". Due to various changes (standards for husbands rising, economic opportunity diminishing), this goal has become clearly unreachable for many. I would opt out if I was a poor young man today, and focus on enjoying the small pleasures (drinking with my buddies, playing PS5). The hill they are expected to climb is ludicrous, and I am not surprised they respond by walking away.

thewileyone 2y ago
Boys today are being left behind because they're not given attention by the school system. That's what I take away from not having any expectations of them.
relaxing 2y ago
Damn. This is the first I’m hearing I wasn’t allowed to have a job AND play PS5. I’ll have to rectify this at once. What are the rising standards though? Not beating your wife?
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  > What are the rising standards though? Not beating your wife? Unironically yes. It is much easier for women to leave their marriage than it has historically been. This has lead to rising standards for how husbands need to behave.
- nikanj 2y ago
  Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. Have you not noticed how much more we expect from men as partners? NB I’m not saying we shouldn’t expect more from them. I’m saying many are seeing the list of demands, and opting out of even trying
  - Doches 2y ago
    > Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. I...honestly cannot tell if this is meant ironically. Those things seem like table stakes for being an adult. It's not "expecting more of them" to simply expect people to...grow up, and help care for the other people in their lives. You write "participating in chores" as if that's one of a list of demands! That's not a demand; that's just...life.
    - dsign 2y ago
      > Being emotionally available My dad taught me boys do the opposite. My schoolmates told me that emotions were not for boys. I'm pretty sure I'm not a unique snowflake. > participating in chores Dad said that boys don't do domestic chores. If a couple lives inside an apartment, all chores are domestic. > providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time Jesus, this is not exactly trivial for most of us. > being reasonably well-read Very few of my friends, family and acquaintances are well-read. I'm pretty sure they don't even know what table stakes are. But it's not a hard requirement, they have kids anyway. > good conversationalist Not a trivial thing either. Incidentally, being well-read doesn't help if your partner is not, or if your partner is onto serious books and you like to read horny gay romps.
      - mikhael28 2y ago
        Well, I guess don’t move to the big city and try to settle down with an IG baddie? I appreciate the fact that people like this exist, everywhere, in large quantities. But that means that the dating market, in some places, have decided there is no product market fit. Very HN statement. Now, the options are - rebrand, or move to new market, or government regulation to provide ‘protectionist’ tariffs and trade barriers to promote ‘homegrown industries’. I prefer the free market, but I can understand why the West Virginia coal miners want the government to bail them out. I’m not sure what to do about this state of events at all.
        2y ago
- hnthrow289570 2y ago
  >What are the rising standards though? If you're on a dating app, that's one impression of the dating pool, so it's no wonder some dudes take the 6'0"+, $100k+, abs or gtfo lists seriously And if you are wondering why they are being heavily influenced by that, gestures to article
  - smegger001 2y ago
    Its not wrong the 80/20 rule applies to the dating apps in a real way, a small minority of males on them sweep the majority of matches and anyone not it the upper quartile may as well not even apply. When your part of the 80% of males in compilation against eachother for the lower 20% of matches it can be daunting. You can choose free porn, play games, drink, and hang with friends or fight the constant rejection, and pay for dating app middlemen to show you to more women and if you finally score date you still have to pay for both of you and have no guarantee that it will go any where. (Its not unheard of for women to use dating apps as a source of free meals.) So why not opt out.
    - dsign 2y ago
      To what you said, I will add this is not only about guys. I've female friends who are in the same situation (bottom 80%) and who have opted out. And if you are gay... I think we should subsidize weight-loss medications.
    - relaxing 2y ago
      Oh gtfo. No woman is desperate enough for food to put up with shitty dates. They have shelters for those cases.
      - 10u152 2y ago
        That’s pretty naive. My mother and her friends love recounting stories about doing exactly that in the 1980s while travelling. Probably just a date at a restaurant but certainly it’s not unheard of. A glamorous date at a nice restaurant vs a soup kitchen? Come on.
      - 2y ago
anal_reactor 2y ago
I'm gay and probably slightly autustic so for me the very natural goal of having a partner is indeed unreachable. The society doesn't give me any other goal to pursue, so I'm stuck just smoking weed and watching YouTube, which is depressing.
- dsign 2y ago
  > the very natural goal of having a partner is indeed unreachable It is not. Plenty of gay men in the world. About one in ten, last time I checked the statistics. But I'll admit it's real tough for most of us out there, not because we are few, but due to all the other reasons. You don't need no goals given by society; make some of your own.
- squigz 2y ago
  Society gives you plenty of goals to achieve. Do you really believe pursuing a relationship is the only real goal you can work toward?
  - shrimp_emoji 2y ago
    It's a horrible goal, too. Programming is way better than (and mututally exclusive with) being in a relationship!
    - AnnikaL 2y ago
      You can do both!
  - anal_reactor 2y ago
    > Do you really believe pursuing a relationship is the only real goal you can work toward? Yes, and I'm tired of pretending it isn't. I'm sorry I'm a human, not some higher being that exists above natural constraints of biological brain that spent millions of years evolving around the concepts of "be a member of a tribe" and "have a family". My tribe will fire me the second I stop being useful to them by the way, so yeah.

by nikanj 2y ago

thewileyone 2y ago

Boys today are being left behind because they're not given attention by the school system. That's what I take away from not having any expectations of them.

relaxing 2y ago

Damn. This is the first I’m hearing I wasn’t allowed to have a job AND play PS5. I’ll have to rectify this at once. What are the rising standards though? Not beating your wife?

HDThoreaun 2y ago
> What are the rising standards though? Not beating your wife? Unironically yes. It is much easier for women to leave their marriage than it has historically been. This has lead to rising standards for how husbands need to behave.
nikanj 2y ago
Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. Have you not noticed how much more we expect from men as partners? NB I’m not saying we shouldn’t expect more from them. I’m saying many are seeing the list of demands, and opting out of even trying
- Doches 2y ago
  > Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. I...honestly cannot tell if this is meant ironically. Those things seem like table stakes for being an adult. It's not "expecting more of them" to simply expect people to...grow up, and help care for the other people in their lives. You write "participating in chores" as if that's one of a list of demands! That's not a demand; that's just...life.
  - dsign 2y ago
    > Being emotionally available My dad taught me boys do the opposite. My schoolmates told me that emotions were not for boys. I'm pretty sure I'm not a unique snowflake. > participating in chores Dad said that boys don't do domestic chores. If a couple lives inside an apartment, all chores are domestic. > providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time Jesus, this is not exactly trivial for most of us. > being reasonably well-read Very few of my friends, family and acquaintances are well-read. I'm pretty sure they don't even know what table stakes are. But it's not a hard requirement, they have kids anyway. > good conversationalist Not a trivial thing either. Incidentally, being well-read doesn't help if your partner is not, or if your partner is onto serious books and you like to read horny gay romps.
    - mikhael28 2y ago
      Well, I guess don’t move to the big city and try to settle down with an IG baddie? I appreciate the fact that people like this exist, everywhere, in large quantities. But that means that the dating market, in some places, have decided there is no product market fit. Very HN statement. Now, the options are - rebrand, or move to new market, or government regulation to provide ‘protectionist’ tariffs and trade barriers to promote ‘homegrown industries’. I prefer the free market, but I can understand why the West Virginia coal miners want the government to bail them out. I’m not sure what to do about this state of events at all.
      - 2y ago
hnthrow289570 2y ago
>What are the rising standards though? If you're on a dating app, that's one impression of the dating pool, so it's no wonder some dudes take the 6'0"+, $100k+, abs or gtfo lists seriously And if you are wondering why they are being heavily influenced by that, gestures to article
- smegger001 2y ago
  Its not wrong the 80/20 rule applies to the dating apps in a real way, a small minority of males on them sweep the majority of matches and anyone not it the upper quartile may as well not even apply. When your part of the 80% of males in compilation against eachother for the lower 20% of matches it can be daunting. You can choose free porn, play games, drink, and hang with friends or fight the constant rejection, and pay for dating app middlemen to show you to more women and if you finally score date you still have to pay for both of you and have no guarantee that it will go any where. (Its not unheard of for women to use dating apps as a source of free meals.) So why not opt out.
  - dsign 2y ago
    To what you said, I will add this is not only about guys. I've female friends who are in the same situation (bottom 80%) and who have opted out. And if you are gay... I think we should subsidize weight-loss medications.
  - relaxing 2y ago
    Oh gtfo. No woman is desperate enough for food to put up with shitty dates. They have shelters for those cases.
    - 10u152 2y ago
      That’s pretty naive. My mother and her friends love recounting stories about doing exactly that in the 1980s while travelling. Probably just a date at a restaurant but certainly it’s not unheard of. A glamorous date at a nice restaurant vs a soup kitchen? Come on.
    - 2y ago

anal_reactor 2y ago

I'm gay and probably slightly autustic so for me the very natural goal of having a partner is indeed unreachable. The society doesn't give me any other goal to pursue, so I'm stuck just smoking weed and watching YouTube, which is depressing.

dsign 2y ago
> the very natural goal of having a partner is indeed unreachable It is not. Plenty of gay men in the world. About one in ten, last time I checked the statistics. But I'll admit it's real tough for most of us out there, not because we are few, but due to all the other reasons. You don't need no goals given by society; make some of your own.
squigz 2y ago
Society gives you plenty of goals to achieve. Do you really believe pursuing a relationship is the only real goal you can work toward?
- shrimp_emoji 2y ago
  It's a horrible goal, too. Programming is way better than (and mututally exclusive with) being in a relationship!
  - AnnikaL 2y ago
    You can do both!
- anal_reactor 2y ago
  > Do you really believe pursuing a relationship is the only real goal you can work toward? Yes, and I'm tired of pretending it isn't. I'm sorry I'm a human, not some higher being that exists above natural constraints of biological brain that spent millions of years evolving around the concepts of "be a member of a tribe" and "have a family". My tribe will fire me the second I stop being useful to them by the way, so yeah.