5 ms·

Value growth isn't tied to physical resources anymore, it's increasingly ascribed to intangible things, such as intellectual property. I'm not saying that growt

Value growth isn't tied to physical resources anymore, it's increasingly ascribed to intangible things, such as intellectual property. I'm not saying that growth is guaranteed to continue, just that economies have already been growing based on more abstract values; it's not all about food and fuel anymore.

jassyr 2y ago
Even so, the IP is used to make things which require resources. Disney IP is used to make toys, movies, books, etc, that all require electricity, paper, computers, employees sitting and eating, commuting into the office. Or a vaccine patent will be used to make a vaccine which requires a factory to be built and operated, the product produced, stored, shipped, used, and disposed into a landfill.
- jasperry 2y ago
  That's true, but more and more products are moving away from dependence on the physical resources. Kids don't buy toys much anymore, they play digital video games. You can see a doctor on Zoom instead of driving to their office. I'm not saying that's better, but it's happening. The real problem I see is when people use wealth generated from intangibles to put the squeeze on physical resources, such as buying up land as an investment to drive up the price when people need a place to live.
  - fulladder 2y ago
    Maybe in the future it will be possible to live in a purely digital environment, thus solving the housing shortage.
    - mikhael28 2y ago
      lol Ready Player One springs to mind immediately.
voisin 2y ago
> Value growth isn't tied to physical resources anymore, it's increasingly ascribed to intangible things, such as intellectual property No this isn’t accurate. No one values IP for its own sake; it is still responsible for generating revenue and being translated into profit. The process by which this happens is still resource extraction (raw materials into chips, energy into processors, etc etc etc). And you are really only talking about tech. Every other industry has the same demand for infinite growth and can’t hide behind an IP abstraction layer.
floatrock 2y ago
> it's not all about food and fuel anymore Is it, though? The biggest IP bubble now is AI, and the main bottleneck of AI is energy to power those datacenters. Doesn't google use as much energy as a few small countries now? Biggest pharma IP now is Ozempic, which let's be honest here, is because westerners are addicted to processed corn and fried stuff. And hectares of monoculture corn sprayed with Roundup and sprinkled with just the right amount of laboratory-calibrated satiating salt is far easier to produce than a balanced diet. And what is needed to grow all that corn, soy, and alfafa feed? The tapped-out Colorado or the dwindling Ogallala... I'm sure there are a couple of pure IP-value plays out there, but look deep enough and most everything is tied back to food, fuel, or the finite ability of the ecosystem to maintain infinitely-exponential growth.
- jasperry 2y ago
  Yes, everything is ultimately dependent on physical resources, but the value creation is at a higher level, and you hopefully get more value out of less resource as things advance. I don't consider AI a positive example, it's a hype bubble for sure. But think how much computing power per watt you get compared to 30 years ago.
  - bckr 2y ago
    Consider also the green revolution which enabled more calories to be grown per hectare. I don’t know if it takes less water and nutrients, though.
    - floatrock 2y ago
      The Haber–Bosch process that powered the green revolution is merely a way of converting fuel into heat into fertilizer. Calories per hectare is one way of measuring food systems, and a great way when we assume fuel inputs are infinite, inexhaustible, and cheap. Calories per unit of inputs is another way.
      - bckr 2y ago

jassyr 2y ago

Even so, the IP is used to make things which require resources. Disney IP is used to make toys, movies, books, etc, that all require electricity, paper, computers, employees sitting and eating, commuting into the office. Or a vaccine patent will be used to make a vaccine which requires a factory to be built and operated, the product produced, stored, shipped, used, and disposed into a landfill.

jasperry 2y ago
That's true, but more and more products are moving away from dependence on the physical resources. Kids don't buy toys much anymore, they play digital video games. You can see a doctor on Zoom instead of driving to their office. I'm not saying that's better, but it's happening. The real problem I see is when people use wealth generated from intangibles to put the squeeze on physical resources, such as buying up land as an investment to drive up the price when people need a place to live.
- fulladder 2y ago
  Maybe in the future it will be possible to live in a purely digital environment, thus solving the housing shortage.
  - mikhael28 2y ago
    lol Ready Player One springs to mind immediately.

voisin 2y ago

> Value growth isn't tied to physical resources anymore, it's increasingly ascribed to intangible things, such as intellectual property No this isn’t accurate. No one values IP for its own sake; it is still responsible for generating revenue and being translated into profit. The process by which this happens is still resource extraction (raw materials into chips, energy into processors, etc etc etc). And you are really only talking about tech. Every other industry has the same demand for infinite growth and can’t hide behind an IP abstraction layer.

floatrock 2y ago

> it's not all about food and fuel anymore Is it, though? The biggest IP bubble now is AI, and the main bottleneck of AI is energy to power those datacenters. Doesn't google use as much energy as a few small countries now? Biggest pharma IP now is Ozempic, which let's be honest here, is because westerners are addicted to processed corn and fried stuff. And hectares of monoculture corn sprayed with Roundup and sprinkled with just the right amount of laboratory-calibrated satiating salt is far easier to produce than a balanced diet. And what is needed to grow all that corn, soy, and alfafa feed? The tapped-out Colorado or the dwindling Ogallala... I'm sure there are a couple of pure IP-value plays out there, but look deep enough and most everything is tied back to food, fuel, or the finite ability of the ecosystem to maintain infinitely-exponential growth.

jasperry 2y ago
Yes, everything is ultimately dependent on physical resources, but the value creation is at a higher level, and you hopefully get more value out of less resource as things advance. I don't consider AI a positive example, it's a hype bubble for sure. But think how much computing power per watt you get compared to 30 years ago.
- bckr 2y ago
  Consider also the green revolution which enabled more calories to be grown per hectare. I don’t know if it takes less water and nutrients, though.
  - floatrock 2y ago
    The Haber–Bosch process that powered the green revolution is merely a way of converting fuel into heat into fertilizer. Calories per hectare is one way of measuring food systems, and a great way when we assume fuel inputs are infinite, inexhaustible, and cheap. Calories per unit of inputs is another way.
    - bckr 2y ago