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I'm surprised to see that HTML output is currently in progress, and was not a core feature from the start. [0] LaTeX's awkward relationship with the web seems

I'm surprised to see that HTML output is currently in progress, and was not a core feature from the start. [0] LaTeX's awkward relationship with the web seems like something a competing greenfield project would try to nail right out of the gate (to mix metaphors painfully). [0] https://github.com/typst/typst/issues/721 https://github.com/typst/typst/issues/721

Kinrany 2y ago
Someone mentioned that pandoc works decently for this.
- alphabeta2024 2y ago
  It does not.
- ykonstant 2y ago
  I am using pandoc to transfer some of my notes to the web: https://ykonstant1.github.io/power-draft.html https://ykonstant1.github.io/power-draft.html
  - nicf 2y ago
    I've been doing something similar, and it looks like you've managed to solve a problem I've been unable to: how did you get theorem and section numbering to work right?
    - hgyjnbdet 2y ago
      Not the OP but I use pandoc-crossref for this: https://lierdakil.github.io/pandoc-crossref/ https://lierdakil.github.io/pandoc-crossref/
    - ykonstant 2y ago
      Nothing special; here is the pandoc command I use to transform tex without tikz: for input in *.tex; do pandoc "${input}" \ --from latex \ --to html \ --pdf-engine=latexmk \ --css="styles/texstyle.css" \ --standalone \ --mathjax \ --toc \ --number-sections \ --output="${input%".tex"}.html" ; done My pandoc version is: pandoc 3.1.9 Features: +server +lua Scripting engine: Lua 5.4
CJefferson 2y ago
Yes, latex's HTML output is fairly good nowadays, after a lot of people made very heroic efforts to put it in a system never intended to support it. Starting a new markup system with no plan for making accessible documents was, in my opinion, a very bad idea. I refuse to use typst until it can produce accessible documents.
- nanna 2y ago
  > Yes, latex's HTML output is fairly good nowadays, after a lot of people made very heroic efforts to put it in a system never intended to support it. Mind saying more? Didn't know there'd been progress here.
  - amai 2y ago
    Have a look at https://ctan.org/pkg/lwarp https://ctan.org/pkg/lwarp and https://math.nist.gov/~BMiller/LaTeXML/ https://math.nist.gov/~BMiller/LaTeXML/ .
    - delta_p_delta_x 2y ago
      lwarp's output is phenomenal. Both https://tikz.dev/ https://tikz.dev/ and https://tikz.dev/pgfplots/ https://tikz.dev/pgfplots/ are rendered with lwarp and I daresay they are a noticeable improvement over the PDF equivalents.
  - setopt 2y ago
    Might be worth mentioning that arXiv is doing mass conversion of TeX to HTML these days: https://info.arxiv.org/about/accessible_HTML.html https://info.arxiv.org/about/accessible_HTML.html
slashdave 2y ago
I assume you know that tex predates the web by many years?
- IshKebab 2y ago
  Nothing in his comment suggested he was unaware of that so I'm not sure why you're asking.
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  So? If I'm a modern user who needs my typesetting system to generate HTML, I'm not going to "forgive" a typesetting system because it's older than the web and use it even though it doesn't do what I need.
  - slashdave 2y ago
    I am just trying to understand how you expect a typesetting system to be designed around a paradigm that doesn't exist yet.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - CBarkleyU 2y ago
      While GP is not here, can you make me understand how exactly you deduced that GP expected TeX to be designed around said paradigm?
    - kerkeslager 2y ago
      I don't expect LaTeX to be designed around a paradigm that didn't exist when LaTeX created. Why do you think anyone expects that? Why should anyone looking for a typesetting tool care when it was designed? Why don't you use a Commodore64? I know it doesn't do anything you need it to do, but you have to cut it some slack, it was designed before any of the things you need to do existed!
    - setr 2y ago
cactusfrog 2y ago
Yes, this is one of the major problems with this. I don’t like pdfs
constantcrying 2y ago
Typst wants to compete with LaTeX. They both face the same problem, namely that the web and paper work completely differently and there are untranslatable concepts. So you have to define some way in which your typesetting gracefully settles into a different environment. If typst had targeted html immediately it certainly would have made their life a lot easier, but it would have been nothing more than an overly complex site generator. Targeting PDF first means that they actually want to compete with LaTeX.
- Shorel 2y ago
  I would prefer some tool that generates better e-books, like an improved ePub format with better equations and tables. This division between web and PDF is meaningless to me. The ePub format is a book format based on Web technologies. A better book format is to the benefit of everyone. To believe HTML can only make websites is counterproductive here. I make PFDs in LaTeX because I am asked to use it, not because I believe it is a good format.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    PDFs are a digital recreation of paper documents, with all the drawbacks of that. Targeting ePub is essentially the same as targeting the web, the distinction between having the file locally or retrieving it from a server seems entirely meaningless in this context. >not because I believe it is a good format. It is a pretty much perfect format within the constraints.

Kinrany 2y ago

Someone mentioned that pandoc works decently for this.

alphabeta2024 2y ago
It does not.
ykonstant 2y ago
I am using pandoc to transfer some of my notes to the web: https://ykonstant1.github.io/power-draft.html https://ykonstant1.github.io/power-draft.html
- nicf 2y ago
  I've been doing something similar, and it looks like you've managed to solve a problem I've been unable to: how did you get theorem and section numbering to work right?
  - hgyjnbdet 2y ago
    Not the OP but I use pandoc-crossref for this: https://lierdakil.github.io/pandoc-crossref/ https://lierdakil.github.io/pandoc-crossref/
  - ykonstant 2y ago
    Nothing special; here is the pandoc command I use to transform tex without tikz: for input in *.tex; do pandoc "${input}" \ --from latex \ --to html \ --pdf-engine=latexmk \ --css="styles/texstyle.css" \ --standalone \ --mathjax \ --toc \ --number-sections \ --output="${input%".tex"}.html" ; done My pandoc version is: pandoc 3.1.9 Features: +server +lua Scripting engine: Lua 5.4

CJefferson 2y ago

Yes, latex's HTML output is fairly good nowadays, after a lot of people made very heroic efforts to put it in a system never intended to support it. Starting a new markup system with no plan for making accessible documents was, in my opinion, a very bad idea. I refuse to use typst until it can produce accessible documents.

nanna 2y ago
> Yes, latex's HTML output is fairly good nowadays, after a lot of people made very heroic efforts to put it in a system never intended to support it. Mind saying more? Didn't know there'd been progress here.
- amai 2y ago
  Have a look at https://ctan.org/pkg/lwarp https://ctan.org/pkg/lwarp and https://math.nist.gov/~BMiller/LaTeXML/ https://math.nist.gov/~BMiller/LaTeXML/ .
  - delta_p_delta_x 2y ago
    lwarp's output is phenomenal. Both https://tikz.dev/ https://tikz.dev/ and https://tikz.dev/pgfplots/ https://tikz.dev/pgfplots/ are rendered with lwarp and I daresay they are a noticeable improvement over the PDF equivalents.
- setopt 2y ago
  Might be worth mentioning that arXiv is doing mass conversion of TeX to HTML these days: https://info.arxiv.org/about/accessible_HTML.html https://info.arxiv.org/about/accessible_HTML.html

slashdave 2y ago

I assume you know that tex predates the web by many years?

IshKebab 2y ago
Nothing in his comment suggested he was unaware of that so I'm not sure why you're asking.
kerkeslager 2y ago
So? If I'm a modern user who needs my typesetting system to generate HTML, I'm not going to "forgive" a typesetting system because it's older than the web and use it even though it doesn't do what I need.
- slashdave 2y ago
  I am just trying to understand how you expect a typesetting system to be designed around a paradigm that doesn't exist yet.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - CBarkleyU 2y ago
    While GP is not here, can you make me understand how exactly you deduced that GP expected TeX to be designed around said paradigm?
  - kerkeslager 2y ago
    I don't expect LaTeX to be designed around a paradigm that didn't exist when LaTeX created. Why do you think anyone expects that? Why should anyone looking for a typesetting tool care when it was designed? Why don't you use a Commodore64? I know it doesn't do anything you need it to do, but you have to cut it some slack, it was designed before any of the things you need to do existed!
  - setr 2y ago

cactusfrog 2y ago

Yes, this is one of the major problems with this. I don’t like pdfs

constantcrying 2y ago

Typst wants to compete with LaTeX. They both face the same problem, namely that the web and paper work completely differently and there are untranslatable concepts. So you have to define some way in which your typesetting gracefully settles into a different environment. If typst had targeted html immediately it certainly would have made their life a lot easier, but it would have been nothing more than an overly complex site generator. Targeting PDF first means that they actually want to compete with LaTeX.

Shorel 2y ago
I would prefer some tool that generates better e-books, like an improved ePub format with better equations and tables. This division between web and PDF is meaningless to me. The ePub format is a book format based on Web technologies. A better book format is to the benefit of everyone. To believe HTML can only make websites is counterproductive here. I make PFDs in LaTeX because I am asked to use it, not because I believe it is a good format.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  PDFs are a digital recreation of paper documents, with all the drawbacks of that. Targeting ePub is essentially the same as targeting the web, the distinction between having the file locally or retrieving it from a server seems entirely meaningless in this context. >not because I believe it is a good format. It is a pretty much perfect format within the constraints.