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Robot dog cleans up beaches with foot-mounted vacuums
- jimmyed 2y ago[dead]
- taneq 2y agoI can’t believe it’s more practical to use a robot quadruped than a rover with big soft tyres. This is cool but it’s gonna be a maintenance nightmare.
- bee_rider 2y agoIt looks like a university project? These usually start with Step 1: I would like to have a cool robot. Step 2: How do I plausibly justify cool robot? Everyone knows cool robots have legs, not wheels.
- taneq 2y agoExactly. A project from a legged robotics research group, no less. Wheels or tracks would be boringly pragmatic in comparison.
- dylan604 2y agoI don't know, Curiosity, Perseverance, Sojourner, Spirit, and Opportunity are all pretty cool. Perseverance even had a helicopter robot buddy. No legs. Just wheels. You might need to tweak your "cool" setting. You might be too aggressively filtering out some cool things
- bee_rider 2y agoThey get automatic cool points by virtue of being launched to another planet.
- fhd2 2y agoThe article mentions stair climbing as a requirement, not sure I buy that. Even wheeled robots can climb stairs with the right platform, I think that's still cheaper, less complex and error prone. But from a pragmatic perspective, it sounds like a very reasonable tradeoff to simply not support stair climbing. It's not like that thing is gonna walk itself from the workshop to the target area. If someone has to carry it anyway, they could conceivably carry it down some stairs while at it. (I'm a rather incompetent hobbyist when it comes to robotics, but I've been researching locomotion quite a bit and find a wheeled platform to be a good choice even in the forest environments I focus on. Guess it's just not exciting enough.)
- kleiba 2y agoThe article mentions stair climbing as a requirement, not sure I buy that. Agreed. That requirement seems to be at odds with the premise of cleaning up beaches.
- cowsandmilk 2y ago1. Stair climbing isn’t just about movement from top to bottom. Stairs are a common place where people drop litter. Cleaning litter on the stairs isn’t accomplished by carrying the robot down the stairs. 2. Why do you believe the robot will always have a minder? The objective very much would be setting these off from a central location and covering a whole neighborhood or city.
- fhd2 2y agoIf the point is to clean beaches and that's it, I think my points hold. Sure, there are stairs on some beaches, but it's not really any significant percentage of the space to be cleaned up, thus not really worth optimising for IMHO. If the point is to _start_ with beaches and to then use the same platform to clean up all kinds of yet to be determined areas, a quadruped might indeed be one of the few viable options. Wheeled robots can climb stairs with the right platform, but I wouldn't argue they can traverse arbitrary terrain the way quadrupeds can. Personally, when designing robots, I have very clear tasks and constraints in mind, making conscious tradeoffs. But I'm a software developer, that's how we do things. It's perhaps not how professional roboticists do things.
- LtWorf 2y agoWell it works on stairs…
- ryaneager 2y ago> The challenge is that most of that automation relies on mobility systems with wheels, which won’t work on the many beautiful beaches (and many beautiful flights of stairs) of Genoa. From the 3rd paragraph. Also Spot is an already developed robot platform, and it’s much simpler to use that than make a robot from scratch.
- pcrh 2y agoI suspect the project has broader goals, but presenting it as solving a problem familiar to most (i.e. litter) is mostly for the exposure that would bring.
- lofaszvanitt 2y agoPoor fella gonna be abducted and repurposed as a rentable pleasure robot.
- Moon_Y 2y agoIt's mind-blowing. I never imagined that robotic dogs could be used for such purposes.
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- Mistletoe 2y agoHow does it not vacuum up tons of pebbles and sand at the same time?
- lifestyleguru 2y agoThis is probably EU innovation funds at work. Still impressing that they assembled something resembling a functional prototype, and not only gigabytes of PDFs and DOCXs.
- geor9e 2y agoThat's probably why they never show it on sand - it would suck it up. Things with the highest surface-to-mass ratio would make it to the top of the vertical tubes — things like dust, cigarette butts, and candy wrappers. Pebbles have too low of a surface-to-mass ratio to get sucked all the way up the vertical tube.
- ape4 2y agoRover could "eat" garbage with its robo-snout.
- retrac 2y agoThat might be okay. Sand can be sifted and gravel and cigarette butts separate by density with shaking the container. Sand and pebbles can then be returned to beach. (Sand depletion is a concern in many areas.). Robo-dog could return to a dock which automates part of that separation process. Then return the sand to the same spot. Cleaning might be a concern (spreading spores of invasive species) if used in different areas.
- lifestyleguru 2y agoI'm a person who never throws cigarette butts, chewing gums, or shit with my dog all over the place. This is an entire domain of problems and solutions which shouldn't even exist.
- amelius 2y agoYes, we should invent robots to vacuum those offenders.
- Modified3019 2y agohttps://images.amcnetworks.com/ifccenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/soylent_green_3.jpg https://images.amcnetworks.com/ifccenter.com/wp-content/uplo...
- trompetenaccoun 2y agoTrue. It's the same with projects like 'The Ocean Cleanup'. In Mainland China there's an army of underpaid elderly street sweepers earning basically nothing (2k RMB/month), who constantly clean up after folks mindlessly dropping their trash on the streets. Or take the craze around drugs like semaglutide (Ozempic) in the West. Technologists constantly come up with solutions that directly or indirectly support immoral behavior and unsustainable lifestyles. I'm not saying let's not have robots cleaning up. But first of all, before we look to such solutions, litterers should be fined to high heaven. Make it sting, so that these people don't even think about doing it anymore. Make it day fines, based on the person's income. They will learn to keep beaches clean that way.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago> Or take the craze around drugs like semaglutide (Ozempic) in the West. Technologists constantly come up with solutions that directly or indirectly support immoral behavior and unsustainable lifestyles. Why the dig at obesity? If there's anything we are learning from GLP-1 medications, it is that, for many, weight control is not a moral failing. Many of these people will have spent thousands on coaching, gyms, nutrition plans, counselling, and any other option to try to lose weight the 'hard' way. Literal blood sweat and tears. Statistically, those interventions don't work well in the long term. Plenty of the morally unimpeachable suffer from weight issues. Clearly there is a physiological component as well. This medication treats it. Is it also a moral failing to take a Tylenol to treat a hangover headache instead of suffering through the pain until it goes away? Maybe surgery patients should just tough it out, without anesthesia like they used to in the 1800s instead of taking the easy way out? People are treated for 'self-inflicted' physical issues constantly. Why are you picking on overweight ones?
- kleiba 2y agoVacuums use a lot of power - I wonder how long the batteries last, especially since the average beach is a lot bigger than your standard living room.
- feeblewitz 2y agoIt's also using hydraulics which are a big power drain.
- retrac 2y agoIt would only need to be pulsed when a cigarette is located.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago> Preventing those cigarette butts from winding up on the ground in the first place would be the best option If we can outlaw plastic straws and bags we should outlaw plastic filters.
- riffraff 2y agoI don't think this would matter, cigarette butts would still be unpleasant even if they'd decompose, much like biodegradable bags are still bad to find around.
- manmal 2y agoThe problem biodegradable plastics solve is microplastic that accumulates in our bodies, ocean etc. People still have to dispose of them properly of course, because it can still take years for a whole bag to dissolve.
- b112 2y agoI thought most biodegradable plastic bags were just plastic bits, alternating with biodegradable bits, so the bags fall apart but the plastic still exists in little pieces?
- kevin_thibedeau 2y agoYou're describing post-consumer plastics which blend recycled content with virgin. Biodegradable plastics are not blends.
- b112 2y agoOK, fair enough... but isn't that the lion's share of "biodegradable" plastic? The reason I say that, is I can assure you it is marketed as such. That it "breaks down" in the environment. Which it does. Into little pieces. Quite annoying.
- tail_exchange 2y agoI don't really care what people do with their lungs, so whether they want to smoke or not, that's their problem. That being said, I definitely have an issue with smokers who think it's ok to throw cigarette butts on the ground. It's crazy how we still allow non-biodegradable cigarette filters to exist.
- genter 2y agoHave you ever stood next to someone while they smoke?
- tail_exchange 2y agoHow is this relevant? I didn't say we should allow smoking everywhere, or that smokers don't need to exercise basic courtesy when they are around non-smokers. I said it's not my business whether someone else decides to be a smoker or not.
- 1992spacemovie 2y agoYou're approaching HN discussions in a clear, linear fashion. You can't do that. You gotta be more autistic.
- tail_exchange 2y agoJokes aside, the level of discourse on HN is miles ahead places like Reddit and Twitter. HN's comment section is fantastic compared to them.
- 1992spacemovie 2y agoFair enough - did not mean to be glib. As much as I dog you boys here sometimes, I really enjoy your comments. HN makes Reddit comments seem like porno video comments by comparison quality wise.
- iftheshoefitss 2y ago
- shermantanktop 2y agoLooks to me like this is an innovation fund project which demonstrates a cool idea. Most of the comments here are complaining about practical issues but I don’t believe running this thing all day long on a public beach is the primary goal. I’m not sure whether it is the press coverage that implies that this is a highly practical solution, or if the actual makers claim that too. But I look at it as a clever maker hack, not a commercial product which should be picked apart as flawed.
- akira2501 2y ago> but I don’t believe running this thing all day long on a public beach is the primary goal. So it will create more waste than it will ever dispose of. > not a commercial product which should be picked apart as flawed. This is hacker news. It does not matter if your product is "commercial" or not. If it has flaws, they will be discussed here, we are not obligated to be cheerleaders for ideological solutioneering.
- slumberlust 2y agoNor are we obligated to conform to your view of what HN should be.
- kitd 2y agoWhat waste is it creating?
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
- kumarm 2y agoInstead of using vacuum why not collect with with finger like extensions to use less power and better accuracy? Also does anyone know a good programmable outdoor robot dog made in US?
- bagels 2y agoThat is probably a lot slower, more difficult to implement and would require even more power for the control system.
- tempest_ 2y agoBoston Dynamics has a contact sales button on their site aha
- NBJack 2y agoArticulation is much more complex. You go from "vacuum thing I found that looks like trash" to "create a 3D model of this scene, route the robotic appendage thru it, find the ideal grasping point at center of mass, make first attempt, compensate for shift due to wind/previous attempt..." etc. Then there is the mechanics. Aside from mobility, consider a grasping arm's many servos and wiring harness vs. electric motor goes brr for the vacuum.
- michaelhoney 2y agoAgree that it’d make mare sense (and be quieter and more flexible) to have little hands. More engineering of course, but it feels very solvable.
- seydor 2y agoI would like something liek this with a gripper or something to pick up garbage. I m sure somebody is working on it
- cromulent 2y agoUsing technology to effectively solve market externalities is a good thing.
- stainablesteel 2y agodoes it also find lost jewelry?
- gcheong 2y agoI think the best test for general AI will be to invent a robot that can clean up after a dog.
- sema4hacker 2y agoWe need a bigger version, not necessarily a vacuum, to clean up roadside litter.
- dylan604 2y agoThen what would all of those people working off their community service hours do?
- standardUser 2y agoDoes it benefit from having four legs, other than to make it look unnervingly doglike? It seems like a robot spider might be more efficient, if not also more terrifying.
- TheDudeMan 2y agoOr wheels.
- sebastiennight 2y agoI can envision better uses for robot spiders if we want to disincentivize littering. Hell, I'm willing to contribute to the open source repo
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- giancarlostoro 2y agoCan we deploy these in Puerto Rico? Some beaches are worse than others. Source: Born and raised. :)
- astromaniak 2y agoFor every dog like this you can probably hire two locals. But what's the point if you throw collected garbage back into ocean.
- floam 2y agoArticle starts off “Thanks to VERO, Genoa has fewer cigarette butts littering the ground” but I doubt this has been designed to be deployed at scale, beyond demonstrations.
- Timshel 2y agoIt's so slow and noisy I would prefer to keep the cigarettes butts rather than have this close by ...
- sgu999 2y agoProbably not as efficient in all aspects as giving a 10k€ fine to anyone caught littering.
- inglor_cz 2y agoImagine this thing growling menacingly at you if it saw you littering... on some people, that would work better than a fine. Even better, following you around for a while, still growling.
- create-account 2y ago[flagged]
- silenced_trope 2y agoI don't think that would work. I've thought about this when I see bottles and other crap strewn on the streets or in parks. Then I see a garbage can nearby that's been tipped over by someone, or an animal, or the wind. A cigarette butt or bottle on the ground doesn't mean the person who bought it and used it tossed it on the ground. It could mean they put it in the designated garbage and someone came along and strew garbage everywhere.
- create-account 2y agoGerman citizens who bring back Plastic bottles to supermarkets receive 0,25 € for each one. Fields are pristine needless to say
- systemtest 2y agoMeanwhile in The Netherlands, the homeless dig through trashcans for their €0.15 bottle deposit and leave all the trash next on the ground.
- yencabulator 2y ago> the first time that the legs of a legged robot are concurrently utilized for locomotion and for a different task There's been bipedal robot soccer games for a long time.
- GenerocUsername 2y agoAre there better beach cleaning machines? Yes. Are they automated? No. Is this unlikely to repay its own costs? Unlikely. Is it cool proof of concept and something that could be deployed somewhere remote for odd reasons? Sort of
- gcanyon 2y ago> 4 trillion butts per year Robot manages maybe 1 butt per 10 seconds It would take over a million of these working 24x7 to get the job done.
- opdahl 2y agoLuckily you don’t have to make them all at once.
- systemtest 2y agoPrevention. Add a taser to this robot and you need a lot less of them.
- thangalin 2y agoCrows, too. * https://www.greenmatters.com/p/crows-cigarette-butts https://www.greenmatters.com/p/crows-cigarette-butts * https://qz.com/1353949/crows-have-been-trained-to-pick-up-trash-in-a-french-park https://qz.com/1353949/crows-have-been-trained-to-pick-up-tr...
- anfractuosity 2y agoIf only we could train the humans like the crows. Also - https://www.npr.org/2008/03/04/87878028/inventor-trains-crows-to-find-money https://www.npr.org/2008/03/04/87878028/inventor-trains-crow...
- Animats 2y agoThere are many beach cleaning machines. A medium-sized robotic one.[1] A large one that Virginia Beach uses to clean up after spring break.[2] As with agricultural equipment, self-contained robots tend to lose out to wide implements towed behind tractors. Nobody vacuums sand to clean it. Sand is scooped up, screened, and returned to the ground. [1] https://searial-cleaners.com/bebot/ https://searial-cleaners.com/bebot/ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yaGaCGqeM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8yaGaCGqeM
- BSDobelix 2y agoHey but that highly efficient thing in your links has no legs...not cool *irony off Sometimes I really think these inventors are just being stupid for the sake of being cool.
- Animats 2y agoUm. It's certainly not removing much stuff. Here's a video of a wide variety of beach cleaning machines.[1] Some of those have big messes to clean up, with rocks, seaweed, and storm debris. Dump trucks are sent out to service the larger beach cleaners, like a harvesting operation. If you need beach cleaning machines, it's usually because you have a lot of stuff to remove. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nll28HBeAg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nll28HBeAg8
- BSDobelix 2y ago>Um. It's certainly not removing much stuff. I was talking that many machines...sorry robots don't need legs and your links show that. To make a legged robot that can "suck" one piece (specialized in Cigarette butts) with it's legs is incredible stupid.
- hansvm 2y ago> tractors + wide implements vs robots In theory there exists a crossover point, right? Tractors scale somewhere like O(x^2) to O(x^3) in costs as the implements get wider by a factor of x, depending on exact design decisions, and swarms of robots scale out somewhere like O(x). Tractors have been getting bigger (trying to get more work done for the same amount of human labor), and if that trend continues you'd expect some sort of smaller, swarm solution to be viable (be it on the larger end, small automated tractors, or smaller still where you can take advantage of local sensors and automate something like weeding instead of paying for herbicides and that particular flavor of special seeds).
- wilgertvelinga 2y agoNot calling it DOG-E* is a waste of opportunity! * Acronym tbd
- kitd 2y ago"The Butt Mutt (tm)" My work here is done.
- evolve2k 2y agoI’m sure nothings better for the soul than a walk along the beach while four legged vacuum cleaners drone away in the background.
- bschwindHN 2y agoI'll take that over walking through cigarette butts on the beach.
- mikeiz404 2y agoI think some commenter’s may be misunderstanding the motivation for doing this. …this is “the first time that the legs of a legged robot are concurrently utilized for locomotion and for a different task.” This is distinct from other robots that can (for example) open doors with their feet, because those robots stop using the feet as feet for a while and instead use them as manipulators. So, this is about a lot more than cigarette butts, and the researchers suggest a variety of other potential use cases, including spraying weeds in crop fields, inspecting cracks in infrastructure, and placing nails and rivets during construction. Some use cases include potentially doing multiple things at the same time, like planting different kinds of seeds, using different surface sensors, or driving both nails and rivets. And since quadrupeds have four feet, they could potentially host four completely different tools, and the software that the researchers developed for VERO can be slightly modified to put whatever foot you want on whatever spot you need. So, to me, this sounds like a somewhat abstract research problem that some one found a fun concrete way to start progress on. The point isn’t that this is a usable product but rather something which moves the research forward. Take a look at the history of boston dynamics and you will see similarly impractical real world robots. For example, this is a video of one of their earlier much simpler robots: https://youtu.be/Bd5iEke6UlE https://youtu.be/Bd5iEke6UlE This Lex Friedman podcast interviews the founder of boston dynamics Marc Reibert and he goes into great detail how they started simple and built from there: https://lexfridman.com/marc-raibert/ https://lexfridman.com/marc-raibert/
- lieks 2y agoIt just occurred to me that a crab would be much easier to keep upright (due to six legs, no need for fancy leg AI) and also much more on theme. They had the dog already working, though.
- squarefoot 2y agoModel with metal detecting coils under each leg to collect lost coins and jewelry in 3..2..1..
- abrookewood 2y agoThere are some criticisms of the current beach raking machines (namely that they remove seaweed which some animals rely on and that they crush larger plastic items into microplastics), which this robot would avoid. It doesn't look particularly efficient, but maybe it's better than what we currently use. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-06/mechanical-raking-beach-litter-rubbish/103673106 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-06/mechanical-raking-bea...
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y agoWhy is it so slow?
- jdbdndnn 2y agoHow is that a dog, it's just a quad pedal robot Was expecting a cyborg dog, where they had attached a vacuum to actual dogs :(