4 ms·

AI weapons seems like a bad bad idea.

by DolphinAsa 2y ago

nradov 2y ago
Why?
- Pfhortune 2y ago
  Putting aside all the ai-recommends-you-eat-a-few-rocks-a-day evidence... Letting machines incapable of empathy, bereft of accountability for themselves or their creators, make decisions to end one or more lives, is a monstrous idea on its face. Additionally, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang
  - rckclmbr 2y ago
    Where does it say the AI weapons make decisions?
    - Pfhortune 2y ago
      The above comment thread is: > AI weapons seems like a bad bad idea. >> Why? --- And let's not be naïve; this is the military we're talking about. It'll happen whether it's Luckey or someone else.
  - foxyv 2y ago
    Mechanized warfare has been a thing for generations now. What is the difference between AI and a pressure switch? AI can choose to NOT kill the 13 year old playing football in the field 5 years later.
    - Pfhortune 2y ago
      Also a bad idea, and if I understand correctly, landmines are already considered a war crime if not removed after conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventi...
      - nradov 2y ago
        Ukraine stopped the Russian invasion and turned the war into a stalemate primarily through widespread use of land mines. The chance that those will all be removed after the conflict is approximately zero. Many of them were artillery delivered so no one even knows exactly where they landed. No one cares about war crimes when their own survival is at stake.
- more_corn 2y ago
  Because drones are overpowered. So the defenders jam. Which means the drones can still fly but can’t be controlled. So they need a pre-programmed target. But things move around on the battlefield so drones need to track. The step from that to automatically identify enemy troops and kill them is just a hop and a skip away. Drones have proven to be the key differentiator in Ukraine. They’ll be important for the next few conflicts (till we’re fighting with sticks and stones again) and they’ll be more effective the smarter they are. Necessity is the mother of invention, we don’t know who the father is, but war blew through here nine months ago and the way they looked at each other oughta tell you somethin.
libertine 2y ago
In theory, I can see that point, in practice, unfortunately, it seems like a good idea. We're witnessing Russia, a massive country with nuclear deterrence, trying to annex a smaller peaceful country that hasn't provoked any neighbor since it existed - Ukraine. Russia has used genocide in the past, and is now using it again to try to wipe yet another country and culture from the face of the earth. The vast majority of Russians don't care, and many support this war with a "brotherly nation" (imagine). Others see going to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians as a way to make a better living, for them and their families - they don't see the shortcomings of Putin that led to their misery, but they see the value in making more money killing Ukrainians - go figure! And Putin made such a strategic blunder, that his existence is now tied to this war - even if that means killing millions of Russians and Ukrainians. So, what can Ukraine do, or other countries close to Russia or close to China, who are looking to expand borders? They can no longer rely on US for help because of their own internal division and the resignation from being the "leaders of the free world". To me, the most obvious answer is: - GET NUKES - The problem with this is that many countries who have nukes don't want more nukes spread around, because sht can get out of hand and nukes might be deployed - this argument no longer makes much sense given what Russia is doing, they're literally using nuclear deterrence to expand borders. But nukes are expensive. - AI WEAPONS - Russia is protected from external intervention under the nuclear umbrella, and they have bodies to throw. They're sustaining a lot of casualties, and Russians seem to be motivated to continue to kill Ukrainians for small personal gain, so something must be done in this regard. The accuracy of western weapons seems to have been playing in favor of Ukraine, but clearly it's not enough. So you will need something to balance off high numbers of motivated soldiers in comparison to those defending - here AI seems to be the solution. - AI WEAPONS + NUKES - this seems to be the safest solution of them all. Reality check: Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China are developing AI weapons. They're already deploying them for information warfare, so you can only assume they will deploy them as weapons as soon as they can. Sadly, that's the world we live in, so we have to adjust to the times. I don't think its a matter of "should we", but more "how can we make them in greater numbers and cheaper".
- hulitu 2y ago
  > They can no longer rely on US for help Maybe you shall check some news. /s
itsoktocry 2y ago
>AI weapons seems like a bad bad idea. AI weapons seems like an inevitability.
- Manuel_D 2y ago
  "AI" weapons have existed for the better part of a century. The first generation sidewinder missile autonomously homed in on a target. It's logic was simple, and it needed a bright exhaust plume to seek, but it's an autonomously guided munition nonetheless. Making a quadcopter with a claymore strapped to it home in on enemy troops using image recognition and visible spectrum cameras isn't fundamentally all that different. Most of the complaints - e.g. the potential for friendly fire - existed with older weaponry too. That sidewinder is just going to home in on the hottest IR signature , which may be friendly if employed carelessly.
  - codingrightnow 2y ago
    In one example, there (most likely) aren't any innocent civilians hanging around. In the other there will certainly be innocent civilians on the other end.
    - Manuel_D 2y ago
      Are there many civilians in the trenches of eastern Ukraine? Again, the discourse around AI weapons seems to consistently neglect the fact that these are already being deployed.
tomjen3 2y ago
Better than letting russians rapist rampage through your country. Although I am sure Ukraine will stop any development in return for sufficient war support.

AI weapons seems like a bad bad idea.

nradov 2y ago

Why?

Pfhortune 2y ago
Putting aside all the ai-recommends-you-eat-a-few-rocks-a-day evidence... Letting machines incapable of empathy, bereft of accountability for themselves or their creators, make decisions to end one or more lives, is a monstrous idea on its face. Additionally, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang
- rckclmbr 2y ago
  Where does it say the AI weapons make decisions?
  - Pfhortune 2y ago
    The above comment thread is: > AI weapons seems like a bad bad idea. >> Why? --- And let's not be naïve; this is the military we're talking about. It'll happen whether it's Luckey or someone else.
- foxyv 2y ago
  Mechanized warfare has been a thing for generations now. What is the difference between AI and a pressure switch? AI can choose to NOT kill the 13 year old playing football in the field 5 years later.
  - Pfhortune 2y ago
    Also a bad idea, and if I understand correctly, landmines are already considered a war crime if not removed after conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventi...
    - nradov 2y ago
      Ukraine stopped the Russian invasion and turned the war into a stalemate primarily through widespread use of land mines. The chance that those will all be removed after the conflict is approximately zero. Many of them were artillery delivered so no one even knows exactly where they landed. No one cares about war crimes when their own survival is at stake.
more_corn 2y ago
Because drones are overpowered. So the defenders jam. Which means the drones can still fly but can’t be controlled. So they need a pre-programmed target. But things move around on the battlefield so drones need to track. The step from that to automatically identify enemy troops and kill them is just a hop and a skip away. Drones have proven to be the key differentiator in Ukraine. They’ll be important for the next few conflicts (till we’re fighting with sticks and stones again) and they’ll be more effective the smarter they are. Necessity is the mother of invention, we don’t know who the father is, but war blew through here nine months ago and the way they looked at each other oughta tell you somethin.

libertine 2y ago

In theory, I can see that point, in practice, unfortunately, it seems like a good idea. We're witnessing Russia, a massive country with nuclear deterrence, trying to annex a smaller peaceful country that hasn't provoked any neighbor since it existed - Ukraine. Russia has used genocide in the past, and is now using it again to try to wipe yet another country and culture from the face of the earth. The vast majority of Russians don't care, and many support this war with a "brotherly nation" (imagine). Others see going to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians as a way to make a better living, for them and their families - they don't see the shortcomings of Putin that led to their misery, but they see the value in making more money killing Ukrainians - go figure! And Putin made such a strategic blunder, that his existence is now tied to this war - even if that means killing millions of Russians and Ukrainians. So, what can Ukraine do, or other countries close to Russia or close to China, who are looking to expand borders? They can no longer rely on US for help because of their own internal division and the resignation from being the "leaders of the free world". To me, the most obvious answer is: - GET NUKES - The problem with this is that many countries who have nukes don't want more nukes spread around, because sht can get out of hand and nukes might be deployed - this argument no longer makes much sense given what Russia is doing, they're literally using nuclear deterrence to expand borders. But nukes are expensive. - AI WEAPONS - Russia is protected from external intervention under the nuclear umbrella, and they have bodies to throw. They're sustaining a lot of casualties, and Russians seem to be motivated to continue to kill Ukrainians for small personal gain, so something must be done in this regard. The accuracy of western weapons seems to have been playing in favor of Ukraine, but clearly it's not enough. So you will need something to balance off high numbers of motivated soldiers in comparison to those defending - here AI seems to be the solution. - AI WEAPONS + NUKES - this seems to be the safest solution of them all. Reality check: Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China are developing AI weapons. They're already deploying them for information warfare, so you can only assume they will deploy them as weapons as soon as they can. Sadly, that's the world we live in, so we have to adjust to the times. I don't think its a matter of "should we", but more "how can we make them in greater numbers and cheaper".

hulitu 2y ago
> They can no longer rely on US for help Maybe you shall check some news. /s

itsoktocry 2y ago

>AI weapons seems like a bad bad idea. AI weapons seems like an inevitability.

Manuel_D 2y ago
"AI" weapons have existed for the better part of a century. The first generation sidewinder missile autonomously homed in on a target. It's logic was simple, and it needed a bright exhaust plume to seek, but it's an autonomously guided munition nonetheless. Making a quadcopter with a claymore strapped to it home in on enemy troops using image recognition and visible spectrum cameras isn't fundamentally all that different. Most of the complaints - e.g. the potential for friendly fire - existed with older weaponry too. That sidewinder is just going to home in on the hottest IR signature , which may be friendly if employed carelessly.
- codingrightnow 2y ago
  In one example, there (most likely) aren't any innocent civilians hanging around. In the other there will certainly be innocent civilians on the other end.
  - Manuel_D 2y ago
    Are there many civilians in the trenches of eastern Ukraine? Again, the discourse around AI weapons seems to consistently neglect the fact that these are already being deployed.

tomjen3 2y ago

Better than letting russians rapist rampage through your country. Although I am sure Ukraine will stop any development in return for sufficient war support.