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I think it translates to solving day-to-day problems. I don't think I could trust someone who couldn't figure out the binary tree thing cold, to figure out tha

I think it translates to solving day-to-day problems. I don't think I could trust someone who couldn't figure out the binary tree thing cold, to figure out that some Spring bean is not request scoped by looking at the object reference, or that openapi code generator is looking in the wrong folder, or a dozen other things that require some mental effort and can't be googled easily.

timr 2y ago
Maybe. But you don't ask someone to "figure out a binary tree cold"...you ask them to do it while talking and coding on a video call (sigh). Go solve a hard puzzle while talking on the phone. Does it make you better or worse? I'm just saying...if someone needs a hint for the trick, but then, post-reveal, bangs out the code under the same circumstances, isn't that telling you something interesting?
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Just wait until the OP freezes during a "easy programming problem" as an interviewee. I have been interviewed more times in my life that anyone I know. I have failed sooooooo many different ways -- all unique. Some days, you get lucky and can solve a brutally hard algo problem. The next day, you fail trying to reverse a string, or something equally as embarassing. Tech interviewing is a numbers game; that's it. I do it enough until I have a very good day and someone gives me an offer that I like.
  - Chyzwar 2y ago
    It is prep game. You train all common interview questions, do mock interviews with friends, prepare answers for common culture fit questions, research company interview process online, tailor cover latter and ask people for recommendations from previous jobs. What people do instead is spray and pray CVs and hope that hiring manger uncover their brilliance under surface level incompetence.
    - batshit_beaver 2y ago
      I think the main issue is that people would much rather spend their free time learning or building something useful, rather than the "prep game." A more skilled, knowledgeable workforce would benefit the corporate overlords as well, but we can't have that due to the broken interview system.
      - Chyzwar 2y ago
        You change job every few years, spend majority of walking hours in job and your financials directly depends on job. Why would you not spend time on prep. I have no sympathy for people posting "jobless for months and reject coding test interview" in one sentence.
    - timr 2y ago
      If the winning candidate has to "train all the common interview questions" (of which there are thousands), then what are you actually learning by asking the questions to the winning candidates? (hint: it rhymes with "mesmerization")
raydev 2y ago
> I don't think I could trust someone who couldn't figure out the binary tree thing cold You can't trust them to figure it out under pressure of securing a job, but that doesn't mean they couldn't do it when their job is secure.
- valicord 2y ago
  What about the pressure of a launch deadline or a system outage?
  - raydev 2y ago
    If I’m responsible for it then I should have some experience with it and understand the code already. I can call upon other resources outside my own brain. It’s certainly not being forced to recall the implementation details of a trie within 30 minutes, when I haven’t seen one in 5 years, unable to reference any docs or knowledge base, or use Google, knowing that if I fail I will remain unemployed.
    - valicord 2y ago
      The context of this thread is a very basic question that any good programmer should be able to bang out in 15 minutes. It's much closer to something you "should have some experience with" than "implementation details of a trie"
      - raydev 2y ago
        I would love to have an interview like that! I think the "context" here is unrealistic for most?
        valicord 2y ago
        If by "most" you mean people in this very thread who are claiming that binary trees is some crazy obscure thing that nobody can be expected to be familiar with, then sure.

timr 2y ago

Maybe. But you don't ask someone to "figure out a binary tree cold"...you ask them to do it while talking and coding on a video call (sigh). Go solve a hard puzzle while talking on the phone. Does it make you better or worse? I'm just saying...if someone needs a hint for the trick, but then, post-reveal, bangs out the code under the same circumstances, isn't that telling you something interesting?

throwaway2037 2y ago
Just wait until the OP freezes during a "easy programming problem" as an interviewee. I have been interviewed more times in my life that anyone I know. I have failed sooooooo many different ways -- all unique. Some days, you get lucky and can solve a brutally hard algo problem. The next day, you fail trying to reverse a string, or something equally as embarassing. Tech interviewing is a numbers game; that's it. I do it enough until I have a very good day and someone gives me an offer that I like.
- Chyzwar 2y ago
  It is prep game. You train all common interview questions, do mock interviews with friends, prepare answers for common culture fit questions, research company interview process online, tailor cover latter and ask people for recommendations from previous jobs. What people do instead is spray and pray CVs and hope that hiring manger uncover their brilliance under surface level incompetence.
  - batshit_beaver 2y ago
    I think the main issue is that people would much rather spend their free time learning or building something useful, rather than the "prep game." A more skilled, knowledgeable workforce would benefit the corporate overlords as well, but we can't have that due to the broken interview system.
    - Chyzwar 2y ago
      You change job every few years, spend majority of walking hours in job and your financials directly depends on job. Why would you not spend time on prep. I have no sympathy for people posting "jobless for months and reject coding test interview" in one sentence.
  - timr 2y ago
    If the winning candidate has to "train all the common interview questions" (of which there are thousands), then what are you actually learning by asking the questions to the winning candidates? (hint: it rhymes with "mesmerization")

raydev 2y ago

> I don't think I could trust someone who couldn't figure out the binary tree thing cold You can't trust them to figure it out under pressure of securing a job, but that doesn't mean they couldn't do it when their job is secure.

valicord 2y ago
What about the pressure of a launch deadline or a system outage?
- raydev 2y ago
  If I’m responsible for it then I should have some experience with it and understand the code already. I can call upon other resources outside my own brain. It’s certainly not being forced to recall the implementation details of a trie within 30 minutes, when I haven’t seen one in 5 years, unable to reference any docs or knowledge base, or use Google, knowing that if I fail I will remain unemployed.
  - valicord 2y ago
    The context of this thread is a very basic question that any good programmer should be able to bang out in 15 minutes. It's much closer to something you "should have some experience with" than "implementation details of a trie"
    - raydev 2y ago
      I would love to have an interview like that! I think the "context" here is unrealistic for most?
      - valicord 2y ago
        If by "most" you mean people in this very thread who are claiming that binary trees is some crazy obscure thing that nobody can be expected to be familiar with, then sure.