8 ms·
NOAA Is in Danger
- Jtsummers 2y agoArchive link - https://web.archive.org/web/20240717023007/https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2024/07/noaa-project-2025-weather/678987/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240717023007/https://www.theat...
- metaphor 2y agohttps://archive.is/w2Ggx https://archive.is/w2Ggx https://web.archive.org/web/20240717131326/https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2024/07/noaa-project-2025-weather/678987/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240717131326/https://www.theat...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Carrok 2y agoIs there anything beyond "vote and encourage others to vote" that an average American citizen could do to help prevent such a tragedy from occurring?
- omegaworks 2y agoProtest at the conventions. Support people civilly disobeying. Call your congresspeople and demand that they put a candidate on the ballot that can make a coherent case against this policy. Backroom discussions are happening right now to determine whether or not Biden will be replaced by someone that can actually win.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoHow would that help NOAA survive?
- omegaworks 2y agoWe need a candidate on the ballot that can make a coherent case against Trump.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoIf we get to the convention and they haven't changed candidates by then it's probably going to be too late, unfortunately.
- omegaworks 2y agoThe original post asked what can you do. Apart from hopelessness, you can put your body on the line. Hold a sign. Be present. Take up space. It's something.
- mrguyorama 2y agoBiden could be a literal corpse come election day and his cabinet/admin will still not paywall NOAA so why does that matter? Both Trump and Biden are abysmal picks, for rather different reasons, but come November 9th, one of them will be chosen as the winner, because that's how the American electoral system is designed. If you don't like either of them, it doesn't matter. They still have explicit visions and plans for the future of the country, and surely you like one more than the other right? People need to get this "perfect candidate is the enemy of the least-worst candidate" shit out of their head. The American political system was designed by a bunch of ethics and philosophy turbo nerds with an insanely optimistic view of how humans organize, a blatent neglect of already understood problems (refusing to create a term limit for the presidency even as Washington was trying to avoid being president for life, choosing to take no preventative action against the formation of political parties despite them obviously forming before the constitution was even finished, no formal system of succession, even though politicians were still dueling each other), and zero systems engineering or practical experience. It is flawed in all the ways you would expect a student project from first timers will be. This stupid system is the one we are stuck with, and by design it can only be changed by participation, unless you are fine with murdering half your neighbors to enact a populist revolution and also convince everyone else to murder half their neighbors in your populist revolution. Staying home isn't a protest. Not voting doesn't hurt anyone but yourself. Choose the direction you want the country to go in.
- sickofparadox 2y agoThey (DNC leadership) are already pushing him onto the ballot before the convention under the guise of meeting the Ohio ballot requirement, while ignoring that Ohio gave them an exception for the convention. https://www.axios.com/2024/07/16/biden-dnc-vote-nomination-states-2024-election https://www.axios.com/2024/07/16/biden-dnc-vote-nomination-s...
- Bluestrike2 2y agoWhile there's almost certainly an element of "let's get this done and over with before the push to switch out Biden grows even larger," Jamie Harrison's explanation[0] would suggest that there's still a very real legal concern behind the push. Specifically, this little nugget[1] from the Ohio Constitution: > [...]No law passed by the general assembly shall go into effect until ninety days after it shall have been filed by the governor in the office of the secretary of state, except as herein provided.[...] So while Ohio eventually passed a law that would extend the deadline to avoid the original problem, because it wasn't done passed as an emergency law not subject to referendum[2] since that would have required a 2/3 majority, that law doesn't actually go into effect until 90 days after its passage. In other words, the law changing the notification requirement from 90 days prior to a general election doesn't actually go into effect until 90 days after its passage...which is after the original notification deadline. It might seem like a technicality, but it all but guarantees the issue will have to be litigated and there's a significant possibility Democrats would lose the case in that case. Risking the possibility of Biden being left off the ballot as a result would be an absurd dereliction on the DNC's part. 0. https://x.com/harrisonjaime/status/1813241706990473389 https://x.com/harrisonjaime/status/1813241706990473389 1. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1c https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1c 2. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1d https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-constitution/section-2.1d
- omegaworks 2y agoThere is still concerted effort from both within[1] and outside the party[2] to push back against rushing the process. His fate is by no means guaranteed. 1. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/16/pelosi-biden-2024-elections-00168767 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/16/pelosi-biden-2024-e... 2. https://x.com/ClimateDefiance/status/1813265814885118081 https://x.com/ClimateDefiance/status/1813265814885118081
- UncleOxidant 2y agoThere really doesn't seem to be much else we can do. Write your congressfolks - especially if you've got red congressfolk (if they're blue congressfolk they'll already want to make sure that NOAA survives). This is just one issue out of many that highlight the stakes involved.
- omegaworks 2y ago>if they're blue congressfolk they'll already want to make sure that NOAA survives Even the blues will want to know that their constituents are paying attention. Swing state blues especially tend to lose their spine without support from their base. Call them anyway and tell them to replace Biden with someone that can actually make a coherent case against Trump. These backroom discussions are happening right now.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- room505 2y agoVolunteer. You can start here - https://www.mobilize.us/ https://www.mobilize.us/
- rchaud 2y agoYou'd first have to drop the pretence of neutrality that most voting advocacy efforts lead with. Only one party has a policy platform of gutting state and federal bodies that are thorns in their climate change denialism. People who need encouragement to vote aren't going to do their own research and dont have the ability to analyze the repercussions of their vote. NOAA policy isn't going to be mentioned on the campaign trail.
- tivert 2y ago> You'd first have to drop the pretence of neutrality that most voting advocacy efforts lead with. I bet there are legal and practical requirements for that. For instance, a lack of a pretense of neutrality would probably undermine the voters' feeling that they're exercising their voice, and instead make many of them less likely to vote because feel like they're being used to serve someone else's goals.
- skissane 2y ago> Only one party has a policy platform of gutting state and federal bodies that are thorns in their climate change denialism. Neither Republicans nor Democrats have such a policy platform. The official 2024 Republican Party Platform [0] doesn't mention anything about gutting the NOAA. Project 2025 isn't part of the Republican platform–it isn't an official Republican Party document. It is just a wishlist from a coalition of conservative thinktanks. While those thinktanks are Republican-aligned, it would be a mistake to think any given GOP politician (Trump included) necessarily agrees with any or all of their proposals (or is even aware of them), and their proposals have no official status in the Republican Party. From time to time, Democratic-aligned thinktanks and groups publish their own "wishlists", and those aren't official Democratic Party policies either. [0] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-party-platform https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/2024-republican-pa...
- vel0city 2y ago> 2. Rein in Wasteful Federal Spending > Republicans will immediately stabilize the Economy by slashing wasteful Government spending and promoting Economic Growth. Just need to read between the lines. Project 2025 argues NOAA is wasteful and ineffective public spending. The party platform is to eliminate wasteful public spending. Hmm...I wonder what'll get cut... It is incredible to see people argue policy documents pushed by most of the largest conservative think tanks will probably have no bearing on anything the GOP will do. As if the Heritage Foundation has little to no influence over the modern GOP. What a joker. And especially when it comes with neutering NOAA, its like everyone just forgot they were pretty close to doing it a few years ago. And have tried it in the past as well. You're essentially arguing for people to not trust what their eyes are seeing. This isn't some random one-off policy document spun this year, this is stuff the GOP has been trying to do for twenty fucking years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_Duties_Act_of_2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Weather_Service_Dutie... https://apnews.com/united-states-government-00158c5aac494e0e917d5f046b29d5b2 https://apnews.com/united-states-government-00158c5aac494e0e...
- Joel_Mckay 2y agoIt is the US citizens that must make the best decision for themselves. I have faith that their kindness will always win, as the vicious must hurt those around them by their very nature. =)
- euroderf 2y agoRelated: You are not punished for your sins. You are punished by your sins.
- LadyCailin 2y agoYour faith is poorly placed.
- Joel_Mckay 2y agoIf one wants to live an honorable pleasant life, than honestly vote for your own interests. It is wise to acknowledge people as they are, and not as one would like them to be... Note this perspective is not necessarily incompatible with Neutral Evil alignments. =)
- mrguyorama 2y agoConvince literally everyone you have ever spoken to, regardless of opinions or political affiliations, that they should vote. A hundred million Americans have this insane idea that voting doesn't matter, or doesn't change things, or they don't like their options enough, as if that means somehow one of the two options won't end up in charge in a couple months. The point of voting is not to get your personal favorite personality at the highest office. The point of voting is to take a poll that explicitly influences the direction your organization goes. Advocate aggressively for things like ranked choice voting and voting holidays to ensure typically poor, underpriviledged people have no more excuses to not vote.
- Jtsummers 2y ago> A hundred million Americans have this insane idea that voting doesn't matter, or doesn't change things, or they don't like their options enough, as if that means somehow one of the two options won't end up in charge in a couple months. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States... Some people may think that first part is hyperbolic but it's really not far off from the real numbers. In 2020 we had a better than normal turnout with 2/3rds of the voting eligible public voting. Even with that, though, 80 million or so eligible voters didn't vote.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Joel_Mckay 2y agoNOAA is a globally relevant working US service, and while one can live without eyes... it makes life more complicated when hurricanes pop up without warning. As an organization it is data driven, where countless airlines, maritime shipping, and agricultural entities can't properly function without the service. Any states that lose NOAA will also see just about every insurance premium balloon into the stratosphere. Someone is letting the dog drive, lol =)
- tomgp 2y agoThis would be an incredible act of vandalism. The hostility towards science, and specifically efforts to monitor and mitigate climate change, coming from the right of American politics is frankly terrifiying.
- omegaworks 2y agoUnfortunately, hostility towards science is increasingly bipartisan. The testing and tracing infrastructure spun up during the pandemic is largely defunct. We are reliant on wastewater sampling and hearsay as we ride the current COVID wave in service of a "pandemic is over" narrative.
- HappySweeney 2y agoEven this is being defunded in Ontario by the conservative Premier. We will only have news reports of packed hospital ERs to go on.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- insane_dreamer 2y agoLosing the NOAA is sad, but if it saves money so we can cut taxes on high income earners, seems like a worthwhile trade off. /s
- UncleOxidant 2y agoIf they do this maybe the blue states could absorb NOAA into some kind of sub-federal system to keep it alive until sanity can be restored? And then charge the red states for weather info - many of those red states are vulnerable to hurricanes & tornadoes.
- OutOfHere 2y agoIt's why I would never vote for them. Nothing surpasses the importance of our collective existence—not for one race or religion, but for all humanity, and for the only intelligent life we know exists in the universe. Anyone whose policies threaten our stability does not earn my vote. We are on a pale blue dot in the vastness of space, and we must honor our duty as caretakers of this planet. No amount of tax cuts can make up for it.
- Ekaros 2y agoWhat is the problem. Isn't it well known that free market will provide better, cheaper and more efficient service? After all we trust free market with other things, so why not with weather forecasting?
- upon_drumhead 2y agoSome things are better left as a public good so everyone can benefit. Hurricane and Tornado warnings save lives. Why would we want to limit that knowledge? The proposal is not to eliminate the NOAA, but to lock it behind paywalls run by private companies. Accuweather already packages up the NOAA data feeds and sells them. This proposal will just eliminate any way for an average citizen to get access to the same data Accuweather gets for free. We will still be paying for it, just will have to pay Accuweather for the privilege of accessing what we've already paid for.
- Cornbilly 2y agoBecause people don’t like to read the articles and I think it’s worth knowing… Trump and the GOP already tried doing this in the last admin. He tried to appoint the CEO of AccuWeather, who publically lobbied against NOAA, to the head of NOAA.
- ofalkaed 2y agoThis seems like standard election year fear mongering and ignores much of what NOAA is and does while fixating on how it will affect the individual. Weather forecasts for you and me is just a side effect of their providing weather forecasts for all those air planes and boats along with keeping up to date information on various hazards like that new antenna tower planes need to watch out for or that a major storm system coming through the midwest is likely to cause a great deal of sediment to collect in certain areas of the Mississippi so decrease the load of your barges if you want to make it to New Orleans. Business and international trade partners would put a great deal of pressure on any administration which threatened to screw with NOAA to this extent and I don't believe any administration would actually follow through with such a thing, it would have massive negative effect on trade and would probably cost the US far more than it would save. This is just politics exploiting that most people don't actually know what NOAA does.
- tomgp 2y ago>it would have massive negative effect on trade and would probably cost the US far more than it would save. I'd love to share that certainty, it's a rational position but the Republican party are fully in thrall to an ideological commitment to capture or destroy the institutions of state and can't be relied upon to behave rationally. If you think the political right won't commit economic vandalism in the name of this idiological crusade just take a look at my home, Britain, where first austerity, then Brexit, then Liz Truss's free market extremism dumpded our economy in the trash and pushed our public services to the brink.
- ofalkaed 2y agoThis goes far beyond what happened in the UK, this would mean thousands of planes being grounded because of the lack of reliable weather reports and every cargo ship coming into US waters taking on less cargo and possibly skipping the US all together if that decrease in cargo means the profit is just not there. NOAA is the source for the nautical charts shipping uses so navigation would become more difficult and slower, more money and incentive lost. Every plane and ship crossing the Atlantic and Pacific depends on NOAA at least indirectly, directly if they are going to/coming from NA. Every farmer in the US relies on NOAA for determining when they should plant and harvest, fishing industry for water and weather information, every meteorologist in the country relies on the data provided by NOAA, the list goes on. The effect these changes would have on the international economy would be massive affecting every country that trades with the US which would compound the internal effects of dismantling NOAA. If the threat was sincere the article would be talking about this stuff instead of how it would effect your ability to plan a weekend picnic.
- josefritzishere 2y agoThat's only the beginning of what Project 2025 woudl dissolve. It's a fair debate what the worst ideas are in project 2025. It's 1984 and Mein Kampf rolled into one.
- lmaoguy 2y agoIt’s not free, they print money, thereby devaluing the currency to pay for this.
- KevinMS 2y agohttps://www.snopes.com/fact-check/project-2025-noaa-national-weather-service/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/project-2025-noaa-national...