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Amazon Sold a Used Diaper. It Tanked a Mom-and-Pop Business

67 points by rurp 2y ago

deepsquirrelnet 2y ago
[flagged]
boilerupnc 2y ago
https://archive.is/LYOVm https://archive.is/LYOVm
gdilla 2y ago
What I keep telling hw companies - you NEED quality control.
- arghwhat 2y ago
  That doesn't mean that you should test each diaper before they go out though.
  - smt88 2y ago
    It does, however, mean that Amazon should inspect every single return and err on the side of selling something "used" rather than "new" even if it looks new.
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    They wouldn't need to do that if they properly checked their return streams. In some cases they're only checking the weight of the items being returned.
    - normie3000 2y ago
      You'd think a weight check would have been sufficient in the OP's case.
      - rtkwe 2y ago
        There's also the annoying other side where Amazon shipped a clearly underweight package but refuses to acknowledge their own equipment's measurement for a return. The person bought a 7-8 pound graphics card and the package only weighed a little over 1 pound according to the package's own shipment info. Amazon is still giving the guy the run around demanding police reports etc when it clearly left the depot without the gpu.
      - arghwhat 2y ago
        Does depend on how heavily the item was… “Tested” before it was returned. Many products will also have inconsistent weight, not only between units (not everything is made to NASA specs, and anything handmade or harvested will have huge variations) but also after shipping (labels on box, seal tape or cellophane removed, cardboard absorbing moisture, …).
  - gdilla 2y ago
    QC can be a visual inspection, doesn't just mean a functional test.
    - arghwhat 2y ago
      I feel that the sarcasm was lost - what went out here was an, ahem, “functionally tested” diaper. QC before restocking is fine. On the shipping side you just check that it’s the right product and that the packaging is intact and not indicative of damage.
- smt88 2y ago
  You didn't read the article. Someone returned one of their diapers used. They trusted Amazon to handle returns and labeling of inventory. Amazon labeled the used diaper as "new," and consumers assumed the diaper company was responsible for the mixup. This is an issue with Amazon's handling of returns, which is exacerbated by their inventory mixing (all items of the same SKU are considered "the same" and interchangeable, regardless of their provenance).
  - dheera 2y ago
    They should do that, but also, a diaper is one of those products that shouldn't even be returnable to begin with.
  - scott_s 2y ago
    I read the article, and I think the take you're replying to is still valid. As a company, you need good quality control. What this incident reveals is that Amazon does not do good quality control. If you outsource that part of your business to Amazon, your business has an existential risk.
- marrone12 2y ago
  But when you sell with Amazon, you cede quality control to their fulfillment.
cddotdotslash 2y ago
I’ve had multiple purchases recently where the product I ordered (new) arrived in obviously-used condition. First was a metal kitchen trash can that had scratches and small dents on it. Second was a stroller cover for the airplane that arrived with tons of dirt and black streak marks all over it. In both cases I got a refund but it makes me wonder how many other “new” products I’m getting from Amazon that are likely used.
- taylodl 2y ago
  As have I. It's given me pause on buying from Amazon as it appears they are completely out of control.
  - gamegoblin 2y ago
    I’ve cancelled Prime and just buy things from Target, Costco, Home Depot, etc now Amazon is just full of junk, the 2-day shipping too often becomes 3-4 for me, and general concerns about the health and safety of products on there (I have no idea how people trust them enough to buy things like toothpaste or other stuff that goes in your body)
    - kjkjadksj 2y ago
      For home depot you ought to make sure its an in store product. They are starting to list the dropshipped junk that permeates amazon for some products at least. Same with lowes.
      - InitialLastName 2y ago
        Target is the same way.
        TYPE_FASTER 2y ago
        And Walmart. Home Depot has sold me a returned product that was missing parts before.
glzone1 2y ago
I've personally received stuff that is sold as new that clearly wasn't. In many cases it may have been somewhat hard to tell if just checking quickly outside of package. Amazon could have buyers note if still new or used on returns, check some "new" ones carefully, and if buyers are lying have a consequence. Because once you actually open a package it usually is crystal clear that stuff is used! Think a "new" pencil sharpener filled with different color shavings :) In my case most stuff has been to low dollar value to deal with a returns cycle on - so maybe that plays into the algorithm. More expensive stuff this seems to be rarer or I'm just getting lucky there.
- mavamaarten 2y ago
  I've also received a speaker that was clearly yellowed from years of use inside a smoker's room, it smelled awful too. I'm pretty sure someone pulled a switcheroo scam there.
- QuantumGood 2y ago
  I received 1/3 of a deck chair in a box too small to house the whole chair, that, upon receiving the whole assembled chair later, clearly had not come from the factory even remotely assembled.
konart 2y ago
As someone who was employed by three large marketplaces in two different countries: you can't and won't have easy returns and quality checks. Every one sell returned goods regardless of condition. It's not like it affects the marketplace in any meaningfull way.
praptak 2y ago
This is literal enshittification. Way to go, Bezos.
- geodel 2y ago
  He is literally gone from Amazon. Jassy is next. He is hanging on perhaps because he is only poor centi millionaire and not billionaire yet. LinkedIn influencers, podcasters and middle-management types keep buzzword bullshit of flywheel effect, today is Day 1, your margin is my opportunity, disagree then commit etc..etc going. Customers are unsatisfied with ad-infested Amazon site but Bloomberg says Amazon revenue will rise by 30% due to bullish ads business. So Amazon is doing something right.
dk23asdfjf 2y ago
"It’s extremely rare for these types of mistakes to happen, and when they do we take them very seriously to improve the experiences of customers and sellers." Bullshit. Literally everyone I know has had this problem with Amazon (albeit not with poopy diapers). Is this a repeat case of Amazon managers looking at metrics and assuming all is well?[1] [1] https://www.startuparchive.org/p/jeff-bezos-recounts-the-time-he-called-amazon-s-customer-service-number-mid-meeting-to-prove-a-metri https://www.startuparchive.org/p/jeff-bezos-recounts-the-tim...
nmeofthestate 2y ago
"Amazon removed the review a few hours after Bloomberg published this story." Disgusting and absolutely par for the course with these big web companies.
wackget 2y ago
This is what happens when customers don't understand the separation between product manufacture and product fulfilment. This was Amazon's fault (for re-selling a returned product as new) but it was also the reviewer's fault for blaming the manufacturer instead of the fulfiller. I see it all the time in product reviews. A one-star review because "PRODUCT ARRIVED LATE AND BOX WAS DAMAGED BECAUSE UPS THREW IT OVER MY FENCE!!!" is a totally useless review and doesn't help anyone, except maybe letting the reviewer vent their anger. Product reviews are not the place for this kind of review, unless the fault is clearly on the manufacturer themselves, or the manufacturer's customer service has been poor. Interestingly though, Amazon seems to have addressed this problem in their Marketplace seller reviews. If you view the profile of a Marketplace seller you'll see "mini reviews" of the seller themselves. When people rate the seller poorly because of delivery problems, the review is greyed out and a note says "Amazon takes responsibility for the fulfilment of this order". It's been like that for years, and I don't know why they haven't extended the same system to product reviews. TL;DR the reviewer shouldn't have written a product review about a bad fulfilment experience, but Amazon should improve their website to make the distinction clearer.
- throwaway173738 2y ago
  They could also read every review for every product as it comes in and proactively notify the seller or take steps to mitigate the problem.
  - NBJack 2y ago
    And use much of the touted LLMs to figure out if a review should be about the shipping company. But that wouldn't be cost effective I suppose.
- hooverd 2y ago
  Amazon doesn't make the difference between seller, third party fulfillment, and FBA obvious.
- creaturemachine 2y ago
  A customer shouldn't have to delve into the amazon supply chain to determine which system failed them and somehow direct their rage-cannon accordingly.
bmitc 2y ago
I don't buy things I need to rely on from Amazon.
cik 2y ago
Stories like these are the reason that I put my cellphone on a tripod and open every single package, I ever get from a retailer on camera, recording it. I do this in full, and take the necessary time. This has allowed me to continuously fight all silly return issues I've had. It's ridiculous that I have to do this. It's saved my bacon twice (once literally with a computer). But the $5 tripod was worth every penny.
- tgma 2y ago
  Why bother - isn't the return policy enough? I'm assuming they are optimistic on new returns being new, but they are liberal on the return end to compensate.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    I've returned stuff to Amazon twice, and my experience both times was pretty bad. But even if the seller is good about returns, having to return it is still a loss. It takes time and hassle, and you have to wait even longer for the thing you want.
    - throwaway173738 2y ago
      My wife had to repeatedly call Amazon to get them to re-refund a returned item on multiple occasions. That issue coupled with generally terrible quality on almost everything is why we stopped buying anything on there. They would refund the item and then a month later claw it back. The csrs usually wouldn’t understand what she was saying either so she would have to wait for a supervisor every time.
  - skellera 2y ago
    Amazon has started to refuse returns on many items. One of their core customer value mechanisms has been destroyed. Online shopping requires returns. Removing that option significantly reduces trust and value.
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
throwaway173738 2y ago
“We take issues of this type very seriously.” Yeah, after they happen. None of the activities their spokesperson describe are proactive. Everything is in response to a terrible experience. Which is fine for a small company, but even rare bad experiences happen with enough frequency at scale that if you’re not anticipating them you’re already behind the curve. Which is one more reason I don’t shop at Amazon anymore.
- asddubs 2y ago
  after they make it to the press, you mean
jostmey 2y ago
I’ve received opened packages of baby food from Amazon. Of course, I immediately threw it away and didn’t even bother returning it, knowing that somebody else would end up with whatever was in the package. Amazon has some real problems and I cancelled my prime account over this and other issues
- scott_s 2y ago
  A similar thing happened to me recently with Target. What I received was obviously damaged, broken seal, broken canister, formula spilling out. I initiated a "damaged product" problem, and they wanted me to return it. So I dumped the rest, rinsed it, and returned an empty can to a physical Target store. The clerk was confused, but they didn't challenge me on it. I got the refund. (I started ordering the formula online because there was a severe shortage recently due to a potentially contaminated batch. Finding it in a physical store was not possible for a while, and not practical even when it was available.)
TrainedMonkey 2y ago
I've received great many things from Amazon sold as new that were clearly used. For important ones I've returned / replaced the items and amazon never made a fuss about it. I've always got an impression that they know this is going on and outsource returned item verification to customers.
- beart 2y ago
  It's also entirely possible that Amazon does handle verification, but they have set their operator metrics so high, the operators are forced to speed through the process. We see this in other areas of logistics as well - delivery people sprinting and tossing packages because they can't spend more then X seconds per stop. I've spent a lot of time in distribution centers over the last decade. The vast majority of people just want to do a good job, even if the job isn't a good one.
nerdjon 2y ago
I do have to wonder if Target or Wallmart have this problem, particularly with Wallmart going the same marketplace model. Clearly something is wrong with Amazon's return process, but just curious if this is unique to Amazon or just known more with Amazon due to scale? I have seen a few of these articles and the thing I have not seen outlined, was this a case of the original person packaging up the order to make it appear as new? Would it have required Amazon to fully open the package and possibly break a seal (even if it was already broke, but if they tried to make it appear as new)? It is also worth being very clear here that his incident happened in 2020. A lot could have changed about their process. It doesnt excuse it and they clearly still have a problem, but it is an important detail that is quite a bit into the article.
- noname120 2y ago
  Amazon is especially lenient when it comes to reviews.
trte9343r4 2y ago
Luiss Rossmann says Aliexpress is now better than Amazon.
- hooverd 2y ago
  At least they're honest!
- epcoa 2y ago
  Louis Rossman can be a bit of a blow hard. People on the Amazon hate meme train have a hard time understanding that you can both be a reputable brand retailer and a bazaar marketplace, which Amazon is, while Ali is only the latter. You’re not going to get genuine power tools or batteries or brand home/car audio from Aliexpress for instance, but this is easily done on Amazon. You can verify serial numbers and generally inspect the original packaging. Yes, I have received fucked up WTF items (eg recently a hard drive that was not even packed and was in a wrinkled ESD bag directly in an envelope), but Amazons return/replacement has been flawless. I cannot say the same for Aliexpress - good luck if even your package is clearly lost but they think it’s in the hands of the courier so it’s your problem. Most people’s Amazon complaints are with crappy 3rd party sellers. Well that is all you get with Ali and the dispute system is stacked against you there. For cheap Chinese items I routinely compare Aliexpress to Amazon and buy on Ali frequently. But have found that Ali is not always significantly cheaper, and sometimes even more expensive when there are deals or coupons. Isolated horror stories aside, Amazon fulfillment and refund/return policies are light years better and more consumer friendly than Ali and if you think otherwise I doubt you use the two platforms frequently.
  - trte9343r4 2y ago
    Louis did extensive testing, it is all well documented. Wrong fuse can burn your house, and insurance will not cover that! Calling it "blow hard" is misinformation! Aliexpress sells genuine power tools, Chinese brands like "Deko" has official store there! It even sells cars! Doing juggling with bar codes on Amazon is not for everyone. You are one click away from counterfeit, just change color, boom! order is not from official store, but some bum! And serial numbers can be faked too, obviously!
karaterobot 2y ago
As noted in the article, returns are high volume and it's hard to thoroughly inspect every item. Somebody on a line probably saw a package that looked like it hadn't even been opened, and said "cool, that's an unopened return, I don't have to spend time on that one, on to the next item". They made a mistake. It's not that it isn't bad, it's that it's bound to happen. The bigger issue is used items being sold as new. That could be a mistake too, except it happens way too often to be a mistake. That's lawsuit territory. Amazon needs to fix that. But to me, the more interesting issue is how one bad review can tank a business. I'm assuming that's what happened in this case, and that's how the article portrays it. Of course, Amazon should have removed the review in question, because it was ultimately their fault and not the business'. However, my hot take is that I think prospective buyers are at fault for seeing a product with an overwhelming number of positive reviews, then seeing one bad review, and thinking "Gross, I won't buy these diapers, the company sells them with shit inside!!!"
- beart 2y ago
  When there are dozens of similar products, one bad review may be all it takes. Why would you choose the one out of 12 that has a chance of a dirty diaper when they are all in the same price range?
  - karaterobot 2y ago
    Because there is no higher chance of getting sold a product with a dirty diaper in it from this company than from any of the 11 other products, unless you believe the company sells new diapers with shit inside them.
- noname120 2y ago
  On amazon.fr I've seen some reviews in the past with an extra mention along the lines “Amazon takes responsibility for this issue, the seller isn't to blame”. I wonder if this is a common occurence in different countries and/or if it was just an A/B testing they did at some point.
kirykl 2y ago
I sell a custom manufactured consumable product on Amazon FBA. I’ve had to redesign the packaging to make it impossible to repackage for a return, so it cannot be restocked and resold. Buyers were previously returning half used and Amazon was restocking
- noname120 2y ago
  Would you mind expanding a bit on how you redesigned the packaging to make it impossible to repackage for a return?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40969870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40969870
Beijinger 2y ago
[flagged]
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Most of the discussion is about what Amazon did wrong. What about the person returning a used diaper? What kind of deranged person does that? Is this some kind of exploitation of a generous return policy? I’ve seen those kinds of shoppers ruin the policy for everyone else.
barryrandall 2y ago
There's an entire industry devoted to teaching people how to flip Amazon return pallets. The warnings not to relist returns as new on Amazon might as well be instructions to do exactly that.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
llm_nerd 2y ago
Whenever an Amazon story appears on HN, dozens of comments appear with stories of used goods sold as new, bricks instead of PS5s, counterfeit goods, etc. Going by the consensus you'd think Amazon has a 0% customer satisfaction rate. Just as a counterpoint, I've bought thousands of items from the site. Multiple thousands. From dried dates to SLRs, random offbrand tablets to laptops. I've had zero used-as-new, counterfeit or replaced goods. None. A couple of times I had notices that things were delivered when they actually weren't, but Amazon immediately sent me a replacement (and in more than one case the original item eventually turned up and Amazon told me to keep that too). One time a driver turned on my wet lawn and left a rut so Amazon gave me a $500 credit. Eh, overall I'm extremely satisfied with the service. Does the Canadian operation just not do the shady stuff? Am I just a remarkable exception?
- betaby 2y ago
  > Does the Canadian operation just not do the shady stuff? Am I just a remarkable exception? I got used stuff from Amazon Canada. Once got counterfeit SSD. Additionally Amazon Canada doesn't have that good selection or prices compared to Amazon USA so perhaps less expose to scams due to low volume? Therefore I buy mostly shampoo or toothpaste from Amazon (not SSDs or electronics), since chances of getting fake toothpaste are very low.
- Izkata 2y ago
  Same here, I think I only got a used-as-new item once or twice (I remember a scratched up cheap $5 timer), even something like damaged in transit is pretty rare, and I get dozens of consumables a month through Subscribe and Save.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
radicality 2y ago
Imo the return policies have gotten out of hand and are negatively affecting many shoppers (by necessarily having increased prices), while the return scammers like this proliferate. It’s ridiculous that you are able to buy a mattress online, and have a _year_ to sleep on it and then just return it for free. How much cheaper would this all be if returns weren’t priced in. I know someone from work that during covid bought a desk and used it for a year, returned it after 364 days for full refund, then immediately bought another, and then returned that again whenever offices opened up again. And he absolutely could afford the desk. And apart from ethical arguments, there’s not much to argue since he followed all the policy rules, and ended up with 2 years of completely free desk usage so a net win for him. I don’t think there should be any “return for no reason” policies, or if there are there should be very high restocking fees. Only if the item is completely broken / unusable should there be returns. And something like a diaper shouldn’t even be returnable.
dgeiser13 2y ago
Why would a diaper even be returnable?

67 points by rurp 2y ago

deepsquirrelnet 2y ago

[flagged]

boilerupnc 2y ago

https://archive.is/LYOVm https://archive.is/LYOVm

gdilla 2y ago

What I keep telling hw companies - you NEED quality control.

arghwhat 2y ago
That doesn't mean that you should test each diaper before they go out though.
- smt88 2y ago
  It does, however, mean that Amazon should inspect every single return and err on the side of selling something "used" rather than "new" even if it looks new.
- rtkwe 2y ago
  They wouldn't need to do that if they properly checked their return streams. In some cases they're only checking the weight of the items being returned.
  - normie3000 2y ago
    You'd think a weight check would have been sufficient in the OP's case.
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      There's also the annoying other side where Amazon shipped a clearly underweight package but refuses to acknowledge their own equipment's measurement for a return. The person bought a 7-8 pound graphics card and the package only weighed a little over 1 pound according to the package's own shipment info. Amazon is still giving the guy the run around demanding police reports etc when it clearly left the depot without the gpu.
    - arghwhat 2y ago
      Does depend on how heavily the item was… “Tested” before it was returned. Many products will also have inconsistent weight, not only between units (not everything is made to NASA specs, and anything handmade or harvested will have huge variations) but also after shipping (labels on box, seal tape or cellophane removed, cardboard absorbing moisture, …).
- gdilla 2y ago
  QC can be a visual inspection, doesn't just mean a functional test.
  - arghwhat 2y ago
    I feel that the sarcasm was lost - what went out here was an, ahem, “functionally tested” diaper. QC before restocking is fine. On the shipping side you just check that it’s the right product and that the packaging is intact and not indicative of damage.
smt88 2y ago
You didn't read the article. Someone returned one of their diapers used. They trusted Amazon to handle returns and labeling of inventory. Amazon labeled the used diaper as "new," and consumers assumed the diaper company was responsible for the mixup. This is an issue with Amazon's handling of returns, which is exacerbated by their inventory mixing (all items of the same SKU are considered "the same" and interchangeable, regardless of their provenance).
- dheera 2y ago
  They should do that, but also, a diaper is one of those products that shouldn't even be returnable to begin with.
- scott_s 2y ago
  I read the article, and I think the take you're replying to is still valid. As a company, you need good quality control. What this incident reveals is that Amazon does not do good quality control. If you outsource that part of your business to Amazon, your business has an existential risk.
marrone12 2y ago
But when you sell with Amazon, you cede quality control to their fulfillment.

cddotdotslash 2y ago

I’ve had multiple purchases recently where the product I ordered (new) arrived in obviously-used condition. First was a metal kitchen trash can that had scratches and small dents on it. Second was a stroller cover for the airplane that arrived with tons of dirt and black streak marks all over it. In both cases I got a refund but it makes me wonder how many other “new” products I’m getting from Amazon that are likely used.

taylodl 2y ago
As have I. It's given me pause on buying from Amazon as it appears they are completely out of control.
- gamegoblin 2y ago
  I’ve cancelled Prime and just buy things from Target, Costco, Home Depot, etc now Amazon is just full of junk, the 2-day shipping too often becomes 3-4 for me, and general concerns about the health and safety of products on there (I have no idea how people trust them enough to buy things like toothpaste or other stuff that goes in your body)
  - kjkjadksj 2y ago
    For home depot you ought to make sure its an in store product. They are starting to list the dropshipped junk that permeates amazon for some products at least. Same with lowes.
    - InitialLastName 2y ago
      Target is the same way.
      - TYPE_FASTER 2y ago
        And Walmart. Home Depot has sold me a returned product that was missing parts before.

glzone1 2y ago

I've personally received stuff that is sold as new that clearly wasn't. In many cases it may have been somewhat hard to tell if just checking quickly outside of package. Amazon could have buyers note if still new or used on returns, check some "new" ones carefully, and if buyers are lying have a consequence. Because once you actually open a package it usually is crystal clear that stuff is used! Think a "new" pencil sharpener filled with different color shavings :) In my case most stuff has been to low dollar value to deal with a returns cycle on - so maybe that plays into the algorithm. More expensive stuff this seems to be rarer or I'm just getting lucky there.

mavamaarten 2y ago
I've also received a speaker that was clearly yellowed from years of use inside a smoker's room, it smelled awful too. I'm pretty sure someone pulled a switcheroo scam there.
QuantumGood 2y ago
I received 1/3 of a deck chair in a box too small to house the whole chair, that, upon receiving the whole assembled chair later, clearly had not come from the factory even remotely assembled.

konart 2y ago

As someone who was employed by three large marketplaces in two different countries: you can't and won't have easy returns and quality checks. Every one sell returned goods regardless of condition. It's not like it affects the marketplace in any meaningfull way.

praptak 2y ago

This is literal enshittification. Way to go, Bezos.

geodel 2y ago
He is literally gone from Amazon. Jassy is next. He is hanging on perhaps because he is only poor centi millionaire and not billionaire yet. LinkedIn influencers, podcasters and middle-management types keep buzzword bullshit of flywheel effect, today is Day 1, your margin is my opportunity, disagree then commit etc..etc going. Customers are unsatisfied with ad-infested Amazon site but Bloomberg says Amazon revenue will rise by 30% due to bullish ads business. So Amazon is doing something right.

dk23asdfjf 2y ago

"It’s extremely rare for these types of mistakes to happen, and when they do we take them very seriously to improve the experiences of customers and sellers." Bullshit. Literally everyone I know has had this problem with Amazon (albeit not with poopy diapers). Is this a repeat case of Amazon managers looking at metrics and assuming all is well?[1] [1] https://www.startuparchive.org/p/jeff-bezos-recounts-the-time-he-called-amazon-s-customer-service-number-mid-meeting-to-prove-a-metri https://www.startuparchive.org/p/jeff-bezos-recounts-the-tim...

nmeofthestate 2y ago

"Amazon removed the review a few hours after Bloomberg published this story." Disgusting and absolutely par for the course with these big web companies.

wackget 2y ago

This is what happens when customers don't understand the separation between product manufacture and product fulfilment. This was Amazon's fault (for re-selling a returned product as new) but it was also the reviewer's fault for blaming the manufacturer instead of the fulfiller. I see it all the time in product reviews. A one-star review because "PRODUCT ARRIVED LATE AND BOX WAS DAMAGED BECAUSE UPS THREW IT OVER MY FENCE!!!" is a totally useless review and doesn't help anyone, except maybe letting the reviewer vent their anger. Product reviews are not the place for this kind of review, unless the fault is clearly on the manufacturer themselves, or the manufacturer's customer service has been poor. Interestingly though, Amazon seems to have addressed this problem in their Marketplace seller reviews. If you view the profile of a Marketplace seller you'll see "mini reviews" of the seller themselves. When people rate the seller poorly because of delivery problems, the review is greyed out and a note says "Amazon takes responsibility for the fulfilment of this order". It's been like that for years, and I don't know why they haven't extended the same system to product reviews. TL;DR the reviewer shouldn't have written a product review about a bad fulfilment experience, but Amazon should improve their website to make the distinction clearer.

throwaway173738 2y ago
They could also read every review for every product as it comes in and proactively notify the seller or take steps to mitigate the problem.
- NBJack 2y ago
  And use much of the touted LLMs to figure out if a review should be about the shipping company. But that wouldn't be cost effective I suppose.
hooverd 2y ago
Amazon doesn't make the difference between seller, third party fulfillment, and FBA obvious.
creaturemachine 2y ago
A customer shouldn't have to delve into the amazon supply chain to determine which system failed them and somehow direct their rage-cannon accordingly.

bmitc 2y ago

I don't buy things I need to rely on from Amazon.

cik 2y ago

Stories like these are the reason that I put my cellphone on a tripod and open every single package, I ever get from a retailer on camera, recording it. I do this in full, and take the necessary time. This has allowed me to continuously fight all silly return issues I've had. It's ridiculous that I have to do this. It's saved my bacon twice (once literally with a computer). But the $5 tripod was worth every penny.

tgma 2y ago
Why bother - isn't the return policy enough? I'm assuming they are optimistic on new returns being new, but they are liberal on the return end to compensate.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  I've returned stuff to Amazon twice, and my experience both times was pretty bad. But even if the seller is good about returns, having to return it is still a loss. It takes time and hassle, and you have to wait even longer for the thing you want.
  - throwaway173738 2y ago
    My wife had to repeatedly call Amazon to get them to re-refund a returned item on multiple occasions. That issue coupled with generally terrible quality on almost everything is why we stopped buying anything on there. They would refund the item and then a month later claw it back. The csrs usually wouldn’t understand what she was saying either so she would have to wait for a supervisor every time.
- skellera 2y ago
  Amazon has started to refuse returns on many items. One of their core customer value mechanisms has been destroyed. Online shopping requires returns. Removing that option significantly reduces trust and value.
  - dragonwriter 2y ago

throwaway173738 2y ago

“We take issues of this type very seriously.” Yeah, after they happen. None of the activities their spokesperson describe are proactive. Everything is in response to a terrible experience. Which is fine for a small company, but even rare bad experiences happen with enough frequency at scale that if you’re not anticipating them you’re already behind the curve. Which is one more reason I don’t shop at Amazon anymore.

asddubs 2y ago
after they make it to the press, you mean

jostmey 2y ago

I’ve received opened packages of baby food from Amazon. Of course, I immediately threw it away and didn’t even bother returning it, knowing that somebody else would end up with whatever was in the package. Amazon has some real problems and I cancelled my prime account over this and other issues

scott_s 2y ago
A similar thing happened to me recently with Target. What I received was obviously damaged, broken seal, broken canister, formula spilling out. I initiated a "damaged product" problem, and they wanted me to return it. So I dumped the rest, rinsed it, and returned an empty can to a physical Target store. The clerk was confused, but they didn't challenge me on it. I got the refund. (I started ordering the formula online because there was a severe shortage recently due to a potentially contaminated batch. Finding it in a physical store was not possible for a while, and not practical even when it was available.)

TrainedMonkey 2y ago

I've received great many things from Amazon sold as new that were clearly used. For important ones I've returned / replaced the items and amazon never made a fuss about it. I've always got an impression that they know this is going on and outsource returned item verification to customers.

beart 2y ago
It's also entirely possible that Amazon does handle verification, but they have set their operator metrics so high, the operators are forced to speed through the process. We see this in other areas of logistics as well - delivery people sprinting and tossing packages because they can't spend more then X seconds per stop. I've spent a lot of time in distribution centers over the last decade. The vast majority of people just want to do a good job, even if the job isn't a good one.

nerdjon 2y ago

I do have to wonder if Target or Wallmart have this problem, particularly with Wallmart going the same marketplace model. Clearly something is wrong with Amazon's return process, but just curious if this is unique to Amazon or just known more with Amazon due to scale? I have seen a few of these articles and the thing I have not seen outlined, was this a case of the original person packaging up the order to make it appear as new? Would it have required Amazon to fully open the package and possibly break a seal (even if it was already broke, but if they tried to make it appear as new)? It is also worth being very clear here that his incident happened in 2020. A lot could have changed about their process. It doesnt excuse it and they clearly still have a problem, but it is an important detail that is quite a bit into the article.

noname120 2y ago
Amazon is especially lenient when it comes to reviews.

trte9343r4 2y ago

Luiss Rossmann says Aliexpress is now better than Amazon.

hooverd 2y ago
At least they're honest!
epcoa 2y ago
Louis Rossman can be a bit of a blow hard. People on the Amazon hate meme train have a hard time understanding that you can both be a reputable brand retailer and a bazaar marketplace, which Amazon is, while Ali is only the latter. You’re not going to get genuine power tools or batteries or brand home/car audio from Aliexpress for instance, but this is easily done on Amazon. You can verify serial numbers and generally inspect the original packaging. Yes, I have received fucked up WTF items (eg recently a hard drive that was not even packed and was in a wrinkled ESD bag directly in an envelope), but Amazons return/replacement has been flawless. I cannot say the same for Aliexpress - good luck if even your package is clearly lost but they think it’s in the hands of the courier so it’s your problem. Most people’s Amazon complaints are with crappy 3rd party sellers. Well that is all you get with Ali and the dispute system is stacked against you there. For cheap Chinese items I routinely compare Aliexpress to Amazon and buy on Ali frequently. But have found that Ali is not always significantly cheaper, and sometimes even more expensive when there are deals or coupons. Isolated horror stories aside, Amazon fulfillment and refund/return policies are light years better and more consumer friendly than Ali and if you think otherwise I doubt you use the two platforms frequently.
- trte9343r4 2y ago
  Louis did extensive testing, it is all well documented. Wrong fuse can burn your house, and insurance will not cover that! Calling it "blow hard" is misinformation! Aliexpress sells genuine power tools, Chinese brands like "Deko" has official store there! It even sells cars! Doing juggling with bar codes on Amazon is not for everyone. You are one click away from counterfeit, just change color, boom! order is not from official store, but some bum! And serial numbers can be faked too, obviously!

karaterobot 2y ago

As noted in the article, returns are high volume and it's hard to thoroughly inspect every item. Somebody on a line probably saw a package that looked like it hadn't even been opened, and said "cool, that's an unopened return, I don't have to spend time on that one, on to the next item". They made a mistake. It's not that it isn't bad, it's that it's bound to happen. The bigger issue is used items being sold as new. That could be a mistake too, except it happens way too often to be a mistake. That's lawsuit territory. Amazon needs to fix that. But to me, the more interesting issue is how one bad review can tank a business. I'm assuming that's what happened in this case, and that's how the article portrays it. Of course, Amazon should have removed the review in question, because it was ultimately their fault and not the business'. However, my hot take is that I think prospective buyers are at fault for seeing a product with an overwhelming number of positive reviews, then seeing one bad review, and thinking "Gross, I won't buy these diapers, the company sells them with shit inside!!!"

beart 2y ago
When there are dozens of similar products, one bad review may be all it takes. Why would you choose the one out of 12 that has a chance of a dirty diaper when they are all in the same price range?
- karaterobot 2y ago
  Because there is no higher chance of getting sold a product with a dirty diaper in it from this company than from any of the 11 other products, unless you believe the company sells new diapers with shit inside them.
noname120 2y ago
On amazon.fr I've seen some reviews in the past with an extra mention along the lines “Amazon takes responsibility for this issue, the seller isn't to blame”. I wonder if this is a common occurence in different countries and/or if it was just an A/B testing they did at some point.

kirykl 2y ago

I sell a custom manufactured consumable product on Amazon FBA. I’ve had to redesign the packaging to make it impossible to repackage for a return, so it cannot be restocked and resold. Buyers were previously returning half used and Amazon was restocking

noname120 2y ago
Would you mind expanding a bit on how you redesigned the packaging to make it impossible to repackage for a return?
- deleted 2y ago
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ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40969870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40969870

Beijinger 2y ago

[flagged]

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Most of the discussion is about what Amazon did wrong. What about the person returning a used diaper? What kind of deranged person does that? Is this some kind of exploitation of a generous return policy? I’ve seen those kinds of shoppers ruin the policy for everyone else.

barryrandall 2y ago

There's an entire industry devoted to teaching people how to flip Amazon return pallets. The warnings not to relist returns as new on Amazon might as well be instructions to do exactly that.

deleted 2y ago

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llm_nerd 2y ago

Whenever an Amazon story appears on HN, dozens of comments appear with stories of used goods sold as new, bricks instead of PS5s, counterfeit goods, etc. Going by the consensus you'd think Amazon has a 0% customer satisfaction rate. Just as a counterpoint, I've bought thousands of items from the site. Multiple thousands. From dried dates to SLRs, random offbrand tablets to laptops. I've had zero used-as-new, counterfeit or replaced goods. None. A couple of times I had notices that things were delivered when they actually weren't, but Amazon immediately sent me a replacement (and in more than one case the original item eventually turned up and Amazon told me to keep that too). One time a driver turned on my wet lawn and left a rut so Amazon gave me a $500 credit. Eh, overall I'm extremely satisfied with the service. Does the Canadian operation just not do the shady stuff? Am I just a remarkable exception?

betaby 2y ago
> Does the Canadian operation just not do the shady stuff? Am I just a remarkable exception? I got used stuff from Amazon Canada. Once got counterfeit SSD. Additionally Amazon Canada doesn't have that good selection or prices compared to Amazon USA so perhaps less expose to scams due to low volume? Therefore I buy mostly shampoo or toothpaste from Amazon (not SSDs or electronics), since chances of getting fake toothpaste are very low.
Izkata 2y ago
Same here, I think I only got a used-as-new item once or twice (I remember a scratched up cheap $5 timer), even something like damaged in transit is pretty rare, and I get dozens of consumables a month through Subscribe and Save.
deleted 2y ago
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radicality 2y ago

Imo the return policies have gotten out of hand and are negatively affecting many shoppers (by necessarily having increased prices), while the return scammers like this proliferate. It’s ridiculous that you are able to buy a mattress online, and have a _year_ to sleep on it and then just return it for free. How much cheaper would this all be if returns weren’t priced in. I know someone from work that during covid bought a desk and used it for a year, returned it after 364 days for full refund, then immediately bought another, and then returned that again whenever offices opened up again. And he absolutely could afford the desk. And apart from ethical arguments, there’s not much to argue since he followed all the policy rules, and ended up with 2 years of completely free desk usage so a net win for him. I don’t think there should be any “return for no reason” policies, or if there are there should be very high restocking fees. Only if the item is completely broken / unusable should there be returns. And something like a diaper shouldn’t even be returnable.

dgeiser13 2y ago

Why would a diaper even be returnable?