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> RISC-V is an open-standard ISA for processors that is slowly gaining traction, especially in China, where some tech companies are using it to bypass America’s

by rany_ 2y ago

> RISC-V is an open-standard ISA for processors that is slowly gaining traction, especially in China, where some tech companies are using it to bypass America’s sanctions on the country. I really don't like that narrative, it doesn't even make sense as MIPS already exists and is more than sufficient for the applications RISC-V is being used in. The same could be said about Linux but it's obvious how ridiculous it would be to bring that up.

throw0101c 2y ago
>> […] where some tech companies are using it to bypass America’s sanctions on the country. > I really don't like that narrative, it doesn't even make sense as MIPS already exists and is more than sufficient for the applications RISC-V is being used in. Is it a "narrative" if some Chinese tech companies are actually using it for such a purpose? And even MIPS-the-company is moving to RISC-V: > Computer architecture courses in universities and technical schools often study the MIPS architecture.[9] The architecture greatly influenced later RISC architectures such as Alpha. In March 2021, MIPS announced that the development of the MIPS architecture had ended as the company is making the transition to RISC-V.[10] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_architecture > In May 2022, MIPS previewed its first RISC-V CPU IP cores, the eVocore P8700 and I8500 multiprocessors.[9] In December 2022, MIPS announced availability of the P8700.[10] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_Technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_Technologies
- rany_ 2y ago
  > Is it a "narrative" if some Chinese tech companies are actually using it for such a purpose? I'm not saying that the narrative is wrong, it's just absurd to bring it up when introducing RISC-V. The same could be said about Linux but it's very clear how WRONG it would be to introduce Linux by saying "Linux is being used to bypass US sanctions". > And even MIPS-the-company is moving to RISC-V: I didn't know that, but what I meant to say is that MIPS ISA is open and could be used instead. There's nothing special about RISC-V.
  - ktallett 2y ago
    It feels as if it is giving a negative slant on the technology when it shouldn't be seen as such.
    - MBCook 2y ago
      I’m not sure it’s a negative slant so much as one of the primary reasons it’s seeing adoption. Even if it has little to do with the benefits of the architecture itself.
  - phkahler 2y ago
    >> I didn't know that, but what I meant to say is that MIPS ISA is open and could be used instead. There's nothing special about RISC-V. Market share. RISC-V is getting attention around the world where MIPS is not. The software ecosystem around RISC-V is getting contributions from everywhere while MIPS (even worse, modified China MIPS) is really just in China. They will benefit from using something that's more widespread. So while it may not be technically special, it is "better" in some sense. As an example, both folks in China and at Google have made efforts to bring Android to RISC-V while the same can not be said for MIPS.
  - brucehoult 2y ago
    > what I meant to say is that MIPS ISA is open and could be used instead. There's nothing special about RISC-V. It is well documented that the researchers at Berkeley who invented RISC-V wanted to use the MIPS ISA but were told they would have to pay several million dollars for the right, wouldn't even get RTL for a CPU core for that, and would not be allowed to publish anything they implemented themselves. So, no, people "can't just use the MIPS ISA". With RISC-V you don't have to ask anyone's permission, and don't have to pay anyone anything unless THEY developed a core and you choose to license it from them rather than develop your own or use a free one. There do happen to be some technical advantages to RISC-V, but they are by far outshadowed by the the freedom advantage.
15155 2y ago
When XuanTie released their cores, a dozen manufacturers started putting them in designs (for better or worse.) I don't recall any such design being released under such permissive terms in the MIPS world.
- hajile 2y ago
  Imagine how much money and risk could be averted if a ton of companies came together to work on open core designs. We could fully commoditize the CPU market and lower costs across the board just like Linux did for server OSes or Android did for phones.

by rany_ 2y ago

throw0101c 2y ago

>> […] where some tech companies are using it to bypass America’s sanctions on the country. > I really don't like that narrative, it doesn't even make sense as MIPS already exists and is more than sufficient for the applications RISC-V is being used in. Is it a "narrative" if some Chinese tech companies are actually using it for such a purpose? And even MIPS-the-company is moving to RISC-V: > Computer architecture courses in universities and technical schools often study the MIPS architecture.[9] The architecture greatly influenced later RISC architectures such as Alpha. In March 2021, MIPS announced that the development of the MIPS architecture had ended as the company is making the transition to RISC-V.[10] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_architecture > In May 2022, MIPS previewed its first RISC-V CPU IP cores, the eVocore P8700 and I8500 multiprocessors.[9] In December 2022, MIPS announced availability of the P8700.[10] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_Technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIPS_Technologies

rany_ 2y ago
> Is it a "narrative" if some Chinese tech companies are actually using it for such a purpose? I'm not saying that the narrative is wrong, it's just absurd to bring it up when introducing RISC-V. The same could be said about Linux but it's very clear how WRONG it would be to introduce Linux by saying "Linux is being used to bypass US sanctions". > And even MIPS-the-company is moving to RISC-V: I didn't know that, but what I meant to say is that MIPS ISA is open and could be used instead. There's nothing special about RISC-V.
- ktallett 2y ago
  It feels as if it is giving a negative slant on the technology when it shouldn't be seen as such.
  - MBCook 2y ago
    I’m not sure it’s a negative slant so much as one of the primary reasons it’s seeing adoption. Even if it has little to do with the benefits of the architecture itself.
- phkahler 2y ago
  >> I didn't know that, but what I meant to say is that MIPS ISA is open and could be used instead. There's nothing special about RISC-V. Market share. RISC-V is getting attention around the world where MIPS is not. The software ecosystem around RISC-V is getting contributions from everywhere while MIPS (even worse, modified China MIPS) is really just in China. They will benefit from using something that's more widespread. So while it may not be technically special, it is "better" in some sense. As an example, both folks in China and at Google have made efforts to bring Android to RISC-V while the same can not be said for MIPS.
- brucehoult 2y ago
  > what I meant to say is that MIPS ISA is open and could be used instead. There's nothing special about RISC-V. It is well documented that the researchers at Berkeley who invented RISC-V wanted to use the MIPS ISA but were told they would have to pay several million dollars for the right, wouldn't even get RTL for a CPU core for that, and would not be allowed to publish anything they implemented themselves. So, no, people "can't just use the MIPS ISA". With RISC-V you don't have to ask anyone's permission, and don't have to pay anyone anything unless THEY developed a core and you choose to license it from them rather than develop your own or use a free one. There do happen to be some technical advantages to RISC-V, but they are by far outshadowed by the the freedom advantage.

15155 2y ago

When XuanTie released their cores, a dozen manufacturers started putting them in designs (for better or worse.) I don't recall any such design being released under such permissive terms in the MIPS world.

hajile 2y ago
Imagine how much money and risk could be averted if a ton of companies came together to work on open core designs. We could fully commoditize the CPU market and lower costs across the board just like Linux did for server OSes or Android did for phones.