4 ms·

but if strongest don't interact with juniors you will also loose in long term

by skirge 2y ago

OJFord 2y ago
Remote working does not mean interactionless working.
dave4420 2y ago
Add mentoring to the list of things that need to be done more explicitly in a distributed environment than in an office environment.
tmottabr 2y ago
i work in a company that has people in the team spread all around the world.. strongest does not need to be in the same physical location as the juniors to interact with then, and that has being the case for decades already, it only got easier over time..
shinycode 2y ago
We use gather.town at work, although irl work is the best, I never talked as much to coworkers in my life. We can share screen and code easily, we ALL have an office space to be alone, to work together or to have meetings. It’s the best version of work I have ever had. Employees are recruited on the criteria of being able to work remotely, without pain and with communication skills but for us it works really great. Working in an open space all my life before has been the worst experience ever. Constant distractions, people talking around, phone ringing, ANR headphones mandatory (and not paid by the employer) etc
- KeplerBoy 2y ago
  Damn this gather.town looks ridiculously cool. I'd apply for jobs advertising this just to experience it.
  - shinycode 2y ago
    It’s a game changer for me, always an office available for myself or a meeting, async check if someone is available in its office or is in a meeting, when you move into someone’s office the camera and mic shows up (if activated) and cuts of when leaving the office. I wasn’t sure at first but it really gives a feeling of a real office and works great. I prefer it to coming at a real office, more convenient and no 3D gives a nice light sensation
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- HPsquared 2y ago
  This has been my experience with remote working in general (not specifically gather town). I've interacted with more people since remote working, including those in other offices, clients etc. It's been a massive boost to the amount of contact I've had. I can go on webcam as much as I want too, without it being an issue like in an open office.
orwin 2y ago
I don't mind people pushing for RTO that much. What I do mind is people pushing for RTO for 'mentorship reasons' in an freaking open space with the noise it implies. I would not mind full RTO in a shared office, with possibility to isolate for 1 on 1 code reviews/pair programming. Also I'm the definition of a mid-level dev, but i'm the only one pushing for more communication and shared time, organizing remote tea breaks, pair programming sessions, weekly code review and bimonthly 'formation' where we can show off skills or domain specific knowledge to others. I feel that now that I have enough seniority to propose that regularly, we are a better team, and better for juniors/interns, even if we are even less in the office than we used to be.
benterix 2y ago
Yeah, I hear this mantra a lot, and since I have been WFH for over a decade, it makes zero sense to me. * Juniors need help in a structured, systematic way, which is not dependent on who is or is not in the office. * If a team member (no matter if it's junior, new, or just anybody needing help with their ticket) can not receive help and has to fight with his task alone, you have a management problem, not WFH/RTO problem * In my humble experience, collaboration online is much better than in open-plan offices where you either disturb your colleagues by loud talk or need to find some private room (good luck with that) that is usually smaller than a farm animal's cell and gets uncomfortable after 15 minutes. * The whole discussion is moot because if you force RTO you will lose seniors, so who will do this whole mentorship?
DrBazza 2y ago
It depends. Many global open source development projects are very, very, successful. There's no office there. If anything, a fully remote set of developers should encourage a significant uplift in information transfer via design and documentation. Walking across the office and asking 'the guru' how X works, means there's little incentive to share that knowledge, simplify the code, and document it. And that's a problem that has existed in most companies forever. "Juniors" should be self-starters, and the 'interaction' is often and frequent code reviews.
piva00 2y ago
I usually pair up with the juniors to help them, or share knowledge, or bring them onboard to a task they can drive later on. I work with people in 4 different continents, in Europe my team is spread around 4 different countries. We manage to interact, remotely. I do not understand why people think being interactions require an office together, there are other ways to foster interactions, it's a culture. If the culture is bad remotely then it's also bad in office, just in different ways, the only thing a remote team loses is the ability of poking someone else's shoulder which is generally good, you don't want interruptions. You want people to have enough slack in their work that they can be called upon for pairing or helping with something. If everyone is so busy remotely that they don't interact anymore then in-person you'd be having issues with frustration from senior devs being interrupt to help juniors. It's the same issue, just presenting itself to the surface in a different way...
synicalx 2y ago
Can that only be done in an office?

but if strongest don't interact with juniors you will also loose in long term

by skirge 2y ago

but if strongest don't interact with juniors you will also loose in long term

OJFord 2y ago

Remote working does not mean interactionless working.

dave4420 2y ago

Add mentoring to the list of things that need to be done more explicitly in a distributed environment than in an office environment.

tmottabr 2y ago

i work in a company that has people in the team spread all around the world.. strongest does not need to be in the same physical location as the juniors to interact with then, and that has being the case for decades already, it only got easier over time..

shinycode 2y ago

We use gather.town at work, although irl work is the best, I never talked as much to coworkers in my life. We can share screen and code easily, we ALL have an office space to be alone, to work together or to have meetings. It’s the best version of work I have ever had. Employees are recruited on the criteria of being able to work remotely, without pain and with communication skills but for us it works really great. Working in an open space all my life before has been the worst experience ever. Constant distractions, people talking around, phone ringing, ANR headphones mandatory (and not paid by the employer) etc

KeplerBoy 2y ago
Damn this gather.town looks ridiculously cool. I'd apply for jobs advertising this just to experience it.
- shinycode 2y ago
  It’s a game changer for me, always an office available for myself or a meeting, async check if someone is available in its office or is in a meeting, when you move into someone’s office the camera and mic shows up (if activated) and cuts of when leaving the office. I wasn’t sure at first but it really gives a feeling of a real office and works great. I prefer it to coming at a real office, more convenient and no 3D gives a nice light sensation
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
HPsquared 2y ago
This has been my experience with remote working in general (not specifically gather town). I've interacted with more people since remote working, including those in other offices, clients etc. It's been a massive boost to the amount of contact I've had. I can go on webcam as much as I want too, without it being an issue like in an open office.

orwin 2y ago

I don't mind people pushing for RTO that much. What I do mind is people pushing for RTO for 'mentorship reasons' in an freaking open space with the noise it implies. I would not mind full RTO in a shared office, with possibility to isolate for 1 on 1 code reviews/pair programming. Also I'm the definition of a mid-level dev, but i'm the only one pushing for more communication and shared time, organizing remote tea breaks, pair programming sessions, weekly code review and bimonthly 'formation' where we can show off skills or domain specific knowledge to others. I feel that now that I have enough seniority to propose that regularly, we are a better team, and better for juniors/interns, even if we are even less in the office than we used to be.

benterix 2y ago

Yeah, I hear this mantra a lot, and since I have been WFH for over a decade, it makes zero sense to me. * Juniors need help in a structured, systematic way, which is not dependent on who is or is not in the office. * If a team member (no matter if it's junior, new, or just anybody needing help with their ticket) can not receive help and has to fight with his task alone, you have a management problem, not WFH/RTO problem * In my humble experience, collaboration online is much better than in open-plan offices where you either disturb your colleagues by loud talk or need to find some private room (good luck with that) that is usually smaller than a farm animal's cell and gets uncomfortable after 15 minutes. * The whole discussion is moot because if you force RTO you will lose seniors, so who will do this whole mentorship?

DrBazza 2y ago

It depends. Many global open source development projects are very, very, successful. There's no office there. If anything, a fully remote set of developers should encourage a significant uplift in information transfer via design and documentation. Walking across the office and asking 'the guru' how X works, means there's little incentive to share that knowledge, simplify the code, and document it. And that's a problem that has existed in most companies forever. "Juniors" should be self-starters, and the 'interaction' is often and frequent code reviews.

piva00 2y ago

I usually pair up with the juniors to help them, or share knowledge, or bring them onboard to a task they can drive later on. I work with people in 4 different continents, in Europe my team is spread around 4 different countries. We manage to interact, remotely. I do not understand why people think being interactions require an office together, there are other ways to foster interactions, it's a culture. If the culture is bad remotely then it's also bad in office, just in different ways, the only thing a remote team loses is the ability of poking someone else's shoulder which is generally good, you don't want interruptions. You want people to have enough slack in their work that they can be called upon for pairing or helping with something. If everyone is so busy remotely that they don't interact anymore then in-person you'd be having issues with frustration from senior devs being interrupt to help juniors. It's the same issue, just presenting itself to the surface in a different way...

synicalx 2y ago

Can that only be done in an office?