4 ms·

Fast-food for education. In my opinion, the whole AI trend is another round of industrialization making low-quality options for the poor. - You're too poor fo

by d--b 2y ago

Fast-food for education. In my opinion, the whole AI trend is another round of industrialization making low-quality options for the poor. - You're too poor for meat? Here is some hyper-processed, growth-hormoned burgers. - You're too poor for a proper house? Here's a shitty pre-fab with walls so thin you can smash through them with your bare fists. - You're too poor for fancy clothes? Here's a Bangladesh-sweatshopped T-shirt that won't make it past 3 washing cycles. - You're too poor for school? Here's a computer with an LLM on it. You could say that at least poor people have houses, steaks and education, but in the end, it's just a way of paying people less, cause they don't need much to send their kids to college anymore... In any case, you can be sure that Harvard kids won't get any of that crap.

brap 2y ago
Is making things accessible bad?
- Moldoteck 2y ago
  are things really made accessible? or you create worse things so that poor can think they have access to those things but in fact it's totally different with lots of features cut? I mean, some are catching like smartphone features, but having unreliable ai as educational source compared to a teacher... idk how this would pan out but who knows...
- Der_Einzige 2y ago
  In many cases yes. Elitism is often good, and populism is often bad.
weweersdfsd 2y ago
Based on my understanding, the cost-quality ratio of most higher education in the US isn't exactly great either. Students from poorer families taking massive student debt to study something that doesn't even get them much better income is not a good outcome, yet it's a reality for many. In addition to that, think in most fields there's an increasing need for education that is more flexible than multi-year degrees, simply because requirements for skills change so fast these days.
- jltsiren 2y ago
  The American model of higher education focuses too much on teaching and too little on self-study. This makes the degrees more expensive and less useful. You need to hire more teachers if you want to cover every required topic in a class. And then the degree only signals that the graduate can learn complex things if properly supervised. It's less certain that the graduate can learn new things on their own, which future employers might want to know.
  - owenpalmer 2y ago
    > The American model of higher education focuses too much on teaching and too little on self-study As an American in higher education, that has not been my experience. I spend most of my time teaching myself, and honestly, I like it that way. Very rarely has a professor explained anything to me outside of a video lecture.
    - jltsiren 2y ago
      Do you plan your studies in terms of classes or exams? Do you have mandatory exams with no corresponding class at all? Just a list of books to read and the name of the professor responsible for the exam. And maybe, if you're lucky, some related lectures every 2 or 3 years. Do you have regular (monthly?) exam days where you can take any exam offered by the department. Both standalone exams and exams replacing classes. Education gets pretty expensive, if you need a class with lectures (and maybe even teaching assistants) for every topic you want to offer.
yanis_t 2y ago
Pretty sure, LLMs even at current stage would be better teachers than at least 20% bottom shitty teachers out there. But I like your analogy! Please tell me where to get shirts that last longer then 3 washing cycles
- lkdfjlkdfjlg 2y ago
  I'm in the UK. I buy the cheapest t-shirts in bulk from Primark. They're still going. I bought them about 7 years ago for 1 pound each. I think they're 2.5 pounds now.
emporas 2y ago
Epic fail, right? Or are we getting gaslighted [1]? I see no reason that chemical molecules and their reactions cannot be transformed into music. Mathematics, programming, physics could turn into songs and registered to memory better than any other way. A.I. could help with that as an assistant. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/harvard-chatbot-teacher-computer-science-b2363114.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/harvard-chatbot-teacher-c...
saint_fiasco 2y ago
Not every cheap product has to be low quality. In particular, lots of products are used by poor and rich alike. Everyone uses the same smartphones (the poor people use phones about as good as rich people used less than a decade ago), everyone drinks the same soft drinks, everyone takes the same cold medicine (the generic ones are pretty good), everyone uses the same social media, the same operating systems (even the richest Microsoft customers have to put up with their adware)
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  Yes, but is there any evidence that this sort of thing would be anything but low quality? I'm friends with an unusual number of college professors. Every single one looks at announcements like this and tears their hair out. "If only I had a chat bot that could act as a TA when students have questions about my lectures" is so far down the list of things they'd like to have to solve problems.
  - saint_fiasco 2y ago
    > "If only I had a chat bot that could act as a TA when students have questions about my lectures" is so far down the list of things they'd like to have to solve problems I care about their problems a little bit, but I naturally care about the problems of the students a lot more. The point of colleges is to make it easier for the students to learn, not for the teachers to teach. The teachers are a means to an end. If colleges announce that they will use AI as TAs and the students tear their hair out, then I will worry.
owenpalmer 2y ago
I really don't like this take. Your aversion to the use of LLMs in education just shows a lack of imagination. 1. LLMs are in their infancy 2. LLMs are better at explaining things than A LOT of teachers. 3. LLMs don't mistreat/shame students for lack of understanding If I could get a degree just by chatting with an LLM, I'd do it in a heartbeat. School is about gaining understanding and skills, not something else. I don't need a human to hold my hand along the way, I need an efficient, fair, and cheap system to prove I know 2+2=4.

by d--b 2y ago

brap 2y ago

Is making things accessible bad?

Moldoteck 2y ago
are things really made accessible? or you create worse things so that poor can think they have access to those things but in fact it's totally different with lots of features cut? I mean, some are catching like smartphone features, but having unreliable ai as educational source compared to a teacher... idk how this would pan out but who knows...
Der_Einzige 2y ago
In many cases yes. Elitism is often good, and populism is often bad.

weweersdfsd 2y ago

Based on my understanding, the cost-quality ratio of most higher education in the US isn't exactly great either. Students from poorer families taking massive student debt to study something that doesn't even get them much better income is not a good outcome, yet it's a reality for many. In addition to that, think in most fields there's an increasing need for education that is more flexible than multi-year degrees, simply because requirements for skills change so fast these days.

jltsiren 2y ago
The American model of higher education focuses too much on teaching and too little on self-study. This makes the degrees more expensive and less useful. You need to hire more teachers if you want to cover every required topic in a class. And then the degree only signals that the graduate can learn complex things if properly supervised. It's less certain that the graduate can learn new things on their own, which future employers might want to know.
- owenpalmer 2y ago
  > The American model of higher education focuses too much on teaching and too little on self-study As an American in higher education, that has not been my experience. I spend most of my time teaching myself, and honestly, I like it that way. Very rarely has a professor explained anything to me outside of a video lecture.
  - jltsiren 2y ago
    Do you plan your studies in terms of classes or exams? Do you have mandatory exams with no corresponding class at all? Just a list of books to read and the name of the professor responsible for the exam. And maybe, if you're lucky, some related lectures every 2 or 3 years. Do you have regular (monthly?) exam days where you can take any exam offered by the department. Both standalone exams and exams replacing classes. Education gets pretty expensive, if you need a class with lectures (and maybe even teaching assistants) for every topic you want to offer.

yanis_t 2y ago

Pretty sure, LLMs even at current stage would be better teachers than at least 20% bottom shitty teachers out there. But I like your analogy! Please tell me where to get shirts that last longer then 3 washing cycles

lkdfjlkdfjlg 2y ago
I'm in the UK. I buy the cheapest t-shirts in bulk from Primark. They're still going. I bought them about 7 years ago for 1 pound each. I think they're 2.5 pounds now.

emporas 2y ago

Epic fail, right? Or are we getting gaslighted [1]? I see no reason that chemical molecules and their reactions cannot be transformed into music. Mathematics, programming, physics could turn into songs and registered to memory better than any other way. A.I. could help with that as an assistant. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/harvard-chatbot-teacher-computer-science-b2363114.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/harvard-chatbot-teacher-c...

saint_fiasco 2y ago

Not every cheap product has to be low quality. In particular, lots of products are used by poor and rich alike. Everyone uses the same smartphones (the poor people use phones about as good as rich people used less than a decade ago), everyone drinks the same soft drinks, everyone takes the same cold medicine (the generic ones are pretty good), everyone uses the same social media, the same operating systems (even the richest Microsoft customers have to put up with their adware)

UncleMeat 2y ago
Yes, but is there any evidence that this sort of thing would be anything but low quality? I'm friends with an unusual number of college professors. Every single one looks at announcements like this and tears their hair out. "If only I had a chat bot that could act as a TA when students have questions about my lectures" is so far down the list of things they'd like to have to solve problems.
- saint_fiasco 2y ago
  > "If only I had a chat bot that could act as a TA when students have questions about my lectures" is so far down the list of things they'd like to have to solve problems I care about their problems a little bit, but I naturally care about the problems of the students a lot more. The point of colleges is to make it easier for the students to learn, not for the teachers to teach. The teachers are a means to an end. If colleges announce that they will use AI as TAs and the students tear their hair out, then I will worry.

owenpalmer 2y ago

I really don't like this take. Your aversion to the use of LLMs in education just shows a lack of imagination. 1. LLMs are in their infancy 2. LLMs are better at explaining things than A LOT of teachers. 3. LLMs don't mistreat/shame students for lack of understanding If I could get a degree just by chatting with an LLM, I'd do it in a heartbeat. School is about gaining understanding and skills, not something else. I don't need a human to hold my hand along the way, I need an efficient, fair, and cheap system to prove I know 2+2=4.