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Disqualified (1954)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Olesya000 2y ago[dead]
- Olesya000 2y ago[dead]
- ThePowerOfFuet 2y agoThank you for submitting this!
- 6510 2y agoIt would have been more funny if the reason was not disclosed at the end.
- gwern 2y agoIt's not supposed to be funny. The shock twist of it being cannibalism is supposed to make you think about the nature of default cultural assumptions and meta-ethics: "what factors Tardo would consider significant—probably very minor ones that the average man would not notice, he thought", and which the host fails to think of despite attempting to hide the slavery & cannibalism, in the same way that you might serve a visitor from India cow steak. (The author was from Brazil, incidentally, which may be relevant to how you interpret this: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/fontenay_charles_l https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/fontenay_charles_l )
- 6510 2y agoMaybe funny isn't the right word for you, I mean the story would be better if it encouraged the reader to think for themselves. How do we know it wasn't a placenta in delicate wine sauce? I don't object to our culture, I grew up in it, I don't know any better. Killing animals for food is accepted, cannibalism is not. I have no reason to object to burials, we prefer to be eaten by worms underground. That said, I have no objective explanation why others must follow this example. It reminds me of a lunch at work, a Muslim points to their dish and says you are not eating pork are you? The Hindu points at his plate and says: cows are sacred to us. They rolled their eyes and didn't know how to progress the conversation. I jokingly told them: we eat everything! Do you also eat people the Muslim asked. I thought for a bit and said, it depends on the situation. He said, that is true, if there is nothing else we are also allowed to eat pork... and everything else. Likewise, Christianity is also fine with it provided it is forced by necessity. I talk with 2 angry vegetarians one time who argued that we don't kill animals for food, there is plenty of food. When asked about nutrition they said no one needs that much meat. You are killing animals purely for pleasure. A surprising revelation, they were right!?! I ended the conversation by asking: What has that broccoli ever done to you? It remains of course a terrible concept in the more atheistic world view but would it be more horrific than people eating sacred animals? The story is that they had quite the hard time surviving on their planet. If people die trying to survive and there is no other food. Should one chose to die from starvation? Should I be the one to judge here? I see room for cultural normalization. If someone dies from an accident and you have to plow the fields by hand with half a carrot to eat, it might be required. The Solar Council is primarily interested in putting its own arrogance on display. Its Planetary Aid agent doesn't give a flying fuck about the slaves. That much is obvious. To bad Gwern, looks like we will be pulling the plow again tomorrow. Thanks for nothing Solar Council! > "My recommendation will be of considerable importance to you," said Tardo as they ate. "If it is favorable, there is certain technical aid aboard ship which will be made available to you at once. Of course, you will not receive advanced equipment from the Solar Council until there is a more thorough investigation." Dude, advanced equipment? All I wanted was a few oxen and some chickens.
- Dr_Birdbrain 2y agoI agree with your last point—the Solar Council should have provided conditional aid. The most basic assistance could have removed the justification for cannibalism.
- shkkmo 2y agoBut would removing the justification really mater given the entrenched power structure that has grown dependant on a certain way of veiwing other humans? The cannibalism is not the primary issue, but is a clear indicator that the inspectors have been lied to and slavery is present, which was previously clearly established as one of the major disqualifying cultural traits.
- iftheshoefitss 2y ago[dead]
- rexpop 2y ago> What has that broccoli ever done to you? False equivalence; generally disingenuous. You're a troll?
- iftheshoefitss 2y ago[flagged]
- teapot7 2y agoThat's rather evasive. The broccoli must have done something quite traumatic.
- shkkmo 2y ago> The Solar Council is primarily interested in putting its own arrogance on display. Its Planetary Aid agent doesn't give a flying fuck about the slaves. That much is obvious. That isn't entirely clear. There is a lot of context that is elided. Given the time frame, clonized 1000 years ago and this is the first ship ever to visit, transit costs can reasonably be assumed to be very high and the resources available to assist each colony may be low. The lack of livestock when founding a colony is not unique to this colony but was ubiquitous at the time it was founded. Presumably the approach to lack of livestock is also not unique. It is an entirely plausible that the Solar Council has tried various approaches and reached the conclusion that attempting to change or assist such culures externally is a waste of limited resources and/or actively harmful. The underlying issue is not the cannibalism, since the Solar Council agent ate the meal and presumably knew or at least suspected when the colony was established. The issue is the way those in power treat their subclass. Attempting to fundamentally change a planetary scale civilization with limited resources is not something we can safely asssume is feasible.
- js2 2y agoSpoilers. :-(
- Arainach 2y agoIf you're worried about spoilers for something, why would you be reading the comments discussing it?
- iftheshoefitss 2y ago[dead]
- cess11 2y agoThis highly influential story was published in 1954.
- dzink 2y agoThe lesson is to look for what’s missing and hidden.
- hef19898 2y agoTrue on so many levels, and most of the time ignored.
- K0balt 2y agoPerhaps a better story if , instead of aid being refused, it was limited to fish , oxen, and chicken.
- badcppdev 2y agoAnd who would you give the aid to?
- K0balt 2y agoThat’s why you don’t give them horses, which are easily used as weapons. Provide a means to eliminate the incentive structure that keeps humans as draft animals and livestock by offering a more efficient and effective alternative. There is no way to directly fix an unjust society from the outside without becoming at least as unjust as what you are trying to fix. So you do your best to distribute the resource, but you know it will initially be controlled by the ones holding the monopoly of force. The hope that one day there will be an improvement in justice is sufficient to not withhold the possibility.
- badcppdev 2y agoYou are working from an incorrect assumption about your choices. * Doing nothing is unjust. * Providing material aid and luxuries to the slave holders/cannibals is unjust. * Using your presumably superior force to stop murder is not unjust.
- K0balt 2y agoIt gets murky fast when the culture itself is the problem and not just some bad actors. When you use coercive force to fight an ideology or a culture, and the ideology or culture makes up the majority of the demographic, you end up with very messy situations that often create more suffering than you were trying to alleviate.
- awaythrow999 2y agoYN hug of death? I wonder if there is a chance for HN to contribute some aid for sites like this, archive.org, and others whenever their links are on the frontpage.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- throwaway2046 2y agoSeconding this idea. IA especially is an astronomical gold mine and its benefits to humanity as a whole are immeasurable, I'm sure it could use non-monetary help beside the usual donation campaigns.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- robin_reala 2y agoI’d be surprised if a big project like PG went down for serving a small static HTML file. I’ve only ever known them have problems when there’s been something more fundamental, or if you were in Germany between 2019 and 2021.
- msla 2y agoMain download page with more formats: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30251 https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30251
- immibis 2y agoTerribly unrealistic, of course. No actual interstellar empire would refuse to give aid to slavers. On the contrary, the imperial core would give them more aid in order to quell any slave uprising.
- DiscourseFan 2y agoEh, considering the period this was written, sci fi was associated with both technologically and socially advanced people, with the basic assumption that something like a communist society would allow for technological development unparalleled in history.
- 6510 2y agoWriting off an entire planet seems the most barbaric of the 3.
- lannisterstark 2y agoDoes it? Imagine Taliban with their treatment of women, queer people, freedom advocates, and dissenters. Or Imagine DPRK. Now with an entire planet's worth of control. Would you willingly give them technology so they can oppress their own people better?
- jojobas 2y agoIf DPRK wasn't wagging their nukes around they'd get all the technology they needed. Ditto Iran (compare with Saudi Arabia).
- PhasmaFelis 2y agoThere are options in between that you're excluding.
- lannisterstark 2y ago>options in between Except in this case, there are not. Context is important. We're discussing this particular planet, and I gave you examples that would be equivalent.
- DiscourseFan 2y agoReally cool short story
- chasil 2y agoDangerous Visions, the anthology edited by Harlan Ellison, contains something similar, if a bit more graphic.
- smnrchrds 2y agoWhat is the name of the story?
- chasil 2y agoI think it's this one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_to_End_All_Stories_for_Harlan_Ellison%27s_Anthology_Dangerous_Visions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_to_End_All_Stories...
- delichon 2y agoSee also Farnham's Freehold by Heinlein.
- ghaff 2y agoOh, Lord. That was a stinker. And, in general, I'm a big Heinlein fan.
- satisfice 2y agoTo Serve Man!
- axiomdata316 2y agoThe Project Gutenberg license is longer than the actual story.