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> A major dumb is that security people think breaking in is the end of the world. For vast majority of users it's not, and it's a balance between usability and

> A major dumb is that security people think breaking in is the end of the world. For vast majority of users it's not, and it's a balance between usability and security. End of the world? No. But it's really, really bad. When you get your stolen car back, problem over. But your broken into system should in most cases be considered forever tainted until fully reinstalled. You can't enumerate badness. That the antivirus got rid of one thing doesn't mean they didn't sneak in something it didn't find. You could be still a DoS node, a CSAM distributor, or a spam sender.

kazinator 2y ago
> When you get your stolen car back, problem over. Not if it contains computers; either the original ones it had before being stolen, or some new, gifted ones you don't know about.
jampekka 2y ago
> But your broken into system should in most cases be considered forever tainted until fully reinstalled. Reinstalling an OS is not really, really bad. It's an inconvenience. Less so than e.g. having to get new cards after a lost wallet or getting a new car. Security people don't seem to really assess what are the actual consequences of breaches. Just that they are "really really bad" and have to be protected against all costs. Often literally the cost being an unusable system.
- dave4420 2y ago
  Is reinstalling the OS enough? Isn’t there malware around that can store itself in the BIOS or something, and survive an OS reinstall?
  - Andrex 2y ago
    It would need to be a zero-day (or close to it), which means nation-state level sophistication. You can decide for yourself whether to include that in your personal threat analysis.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  > Reinstalling an OS is not really, really bad. It's an inconvenience. Reinstalling an OS is not nearly enough. You have to reinstall all of them, without letting the "dirty" ones contaminate the clean part of your network; you have to re-obtain all of your binaries; and good luck trusting any local source code. The way most places are organized today, getting computers infected is a potentially unfixable issue.
- worik 2y ago
  > Security people don't seem to really assess what are the actual consequences of breaches. Just that they are "really really bad" and No Security people are acutely aware of the consequences of a breach. Look at the catastrophic consequences of the recent wave of ransomware attacks. Lax security at all levels, victim blaming (they clicked a link....) and no consequences I know of foe those responsible for that bad design
- worik 2y ago
  > Security people don't seem to really assess what are the actual consequences of breaches. Just that they are "really really bad" and No Security people are acutely aware of the consequences of a breach. Look at the catastrophic consequences of the recent wave of ransomware attacks. Lax security at all levels, victim blaming (they clicked a link....) and no consequences I know of for those responsible for that bad design. Our comrades built those vulnerable systems
SoftTalker 2y ago
> When you get your stolen car back, problem over. > But your broken into system should in most cases be considered forever tainted Actually this is exactly how stolen cars work. A stolen car that is recovered will have a branded title from then on (at least it will if an insurance company wrote it off).
deleted 2y ago
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kazinator 2y ago

> When you get your stolen car back, problem over. Not if it contains computers; either the original ones it had before being stolen, or some new, gifted ones you don't know about.

jampekka 2y ago

> But your broken into system should in most cases be considered forever tainted until fully reinstalled. Reinstalling an OS is not really, really bad. It's an inconvenience. Less so than e.g. having to get new cards after a lost wallet or getting a new car. Security people don't seem to really assess what are the actual consequences of breaches. Just that they are "really really bad" and have to be protected against all costs. Often literally the cost being an unusable system.

dave4420 2y ago
Is reinstalling the OS enough? Isn’t there malware around that can store itself in the BIOS or something, and survive an OS reinstall?
- Andrex 2y ago
  It would need to be a zero-day (or close to it), which means nation-state level sophistication. You can decide for yourself whether to include that in your personal threat analysis.
marcosdumay 2y ago
> Reinstalling an OS is not really, really bad. It's an inconvenience. Reinstalling an OS is not nearly enough. You have to reinstall all of them, without letting the "dirty" ones contaminate the clean part of your network; you have to re-obtain all of your binaries; and good luck trusting any local source code. The way most places are organized today, getting computers infected is a potentially unfixable issue.
worik 2y ago
> Security people don't seem to really assess what are the actual consequences of breaches. Just that they are "really really bad" and No Security people are acutely aware of the consequences of a breach. Look at the catastrophic consequences of the recent wave of ransomware attacks. Lax security at all levels, victim blaming (they clicked a link....) and no consequences I know of foe those responsible for that bad design
worik 2y ago
> Security people don't seem to really assess what are the actual consequences of breaches. Just that they are "really really bad" and No Security people are acutely aware of the consequences of a breach. Look at the catastrophic consequences of the recent wave of ransomware attacks. Lax security at all levels, victim blaming (they clicked a link....) and no consequences I know of for those responsible for that bad design. Our comrades built those vulnerable systems

SoftTalker 2y ago

> When you get your stolen car back, problem over. > But your broken into system should in most cases be considered forever tainted Actually this is exactly how stolen cars work. A stolen car that is recovered will have a branded title from then on (at least it will if an insurance company wrote it off).

deleted 2y ago

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