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I have been a Windows user my whole life. As a hacker who has recently moved to San Francisco, I've continuously battled Apple fanboys and Linux fanatics alike

I have been a Windows user my whole life. As a hacker who has recently moved to San Francisco, I've continuously battled Apple fanboys and Linux fanatics alike on why I love Windows and absolutely do not understand why people want to switch platforms. Then I watched this keynote. I'm buying a Macbook Pro.

danieldk 14y ago
Why? I have been using a Mac since 2007. So far, I haven't seen anything spectacular in this keynote except for the retina display. But $2199 (probably 2199 Euro in Europe) is a steep price. Edit: Given the lack of real interesting updates in OS X since Leopard and recent iOS versions, I am actually quite interested in Windows 8 and Windows Phone after ~18 years of using Unix-like operating systems and ~5.5 years a Mac.
- prezjordan 14y ago
  Probably just got pushed over the edge.
- gurkendoktor 14y ago
  I thought 10.6 was so-so - I preferred Leopard's Exposé. I hate 10.7. But 10.8 makes sense again, especially now that 3rd-party apps are catching up with the concepts of 10.7.
  - pkamb 14y ago
    FYI, you can use Leopard's Exposé in Snow Leopard: http://superuser.com/questions/118424/old-leopard-expose-on-snow-leopard-for-mac http://superuser.com/questions/118424/old-leopard-expose-on-... I really miss "all windows" Exposé; Mission Control is not a worthy replacement. Any word on Exposé changes in 10.8?
    - fratis 14y ago
      For me, it's really Spaces whose usefulness was diminished in 10.7. They used to be configurable in multiple dimensions (i.e., X & Y): now they're linear only. Lame city.
      - eieio 14y ago
        I use change space(https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space) to get around this, but the fact that I can't have native 2-d spaces really bothers me. Change Space is good, but it does have a few bugs that wouldn't exist if Apple hadn't insisted on breaking spaces for no reason that I'm aware of. I love my Macbook but can't stand the direction of the operating system. It feels like I use more and more hacks like the above just to have a usable machine.
    - gurkendoktor 14y ago
      I used this to the very end :) A friend who first started using OS X with 10.6 saw it and installed it right then too. Good news! There is a system preference in 10.8 to ungroup windows (by application) in Mission Control. Still, the "spaces bar" and dock show up every time you use MC, so there's less real estate than on 10.5. Dragging to the Dock stopped being useful in 10.6 IMHO, that's still the same in 10.8. (In 10.5, dragging an icon to the dock in Exposé would act the same as clicking the icon - e.g. for Skype it would open the window if it was closed.)
  - thom 14y ago
    The more apps catch up with 10.7, the more they all do that unbearable fullscreen-on-some-weird-new-unexpected-virtual-desktop thing, yuck.
    - gurkendoktor 14y ago
      To chyme in and rant... iTunes must be the worst offender. I always fullscreen it, because I seldom access it but want it to use all of my 13". Then I start a video podcast. It runs inside the iTunes chrome. I hit cmd+F, it opens a new space. I finish watching the cast. The space closes and I land on the desktop instead of back in iTunes. What? I wish any high-level blogger would start caring about OS X usability again. 10.7 needs more and not less public shaming. I don't think anyone even noticed that mouse/trackpad click-through is different again in 10.7, and for the worse IMHO. :(
- moystard 14y ago
  As much as I love this new Macbook Pro with this beautiful retina display, Mountain Lion is just another iteration in the iOS direction and I still don't like the user experience. As usual, I will use several tools to get back to the old but good desktop metaphor with less shiny but functional features.
  - pkamb 14y ago
    The problem will be when Xcode stops working on Snow Leopard.
    - ericd 14y ago
      I think it already has? That's why I had to finally bite the bullet and upgrade to Lion. My reluctance wasn't unfounded, it turns out.
      - sureshv 14y ago
        Yes, I think with XCode 4.3 I had to upgrade to Lion from Snow Leopard.
      - pkamb 14y ago
        The Mac App Store version is dead for Snow Leopard, but you can still download 10.6 compatible builds directly from the developer portal.
        ericd 14y ago
        I tried pretty hard to find that, since I'd been able to do that for a previous version, but I came up empty. If you're telling me I could have avoided giving up SL, I'm pretty sad about that.
        tedunangst 14y ago
        I tried as well. There does not appear to be a download link available anywhere for free. Everybody keeps saying you can download it, but I don't think anybody actually has in quite some time, and nobody has posted a link.
- mrb 14y ago
  Mac Book Pro with Retina display = 2279 EUR in France http://store.apple.com/fr/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro http://store.apple.com/fr/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo...
  - jarek 14y ago
    For comparison purposes, before tax this is 1905 €, roughly 2380 USD.
marquis 14y ago
Could you be specific about what swayed you? I'm not sure what is so new, announced today, that you couldn't have bought yesterday: Retina? Will you continue to run Windows?
- phamilton 14y ago
  It's an Air-like laptop with real performance. It has a real graphics card, can support 16 GB of ram and has a rockin Ivy Bridge processor. The retina display is very impressive as well.
  - jarek 14y ago
    It's a 15" laptop. It is not Air-like for any meaningful definition of "Air-like."
    - phamilton 14y ago
      Thinner and lighter than a 13" MBP and lacking an optical drive. I think that's a meaningful definition of "Air-like".
      - jarek 14y ago
        It is in fact marginally lighter than the 13" MacBook Pro, but the difference from the 15" model is less than on the 13" Air. The 13" MacBook Pro is 1.35 kg, and the 13" Macbook Pro is 2.05 kg (53% heavier than the Air). The MacBook Pro with Retina Display (mid-2012) is 2.02 kg while the 15" MacBook Pro is 2.56 kg (27% heavier). This one won't exactly fit in a manila envelope.
  - kylebrown 14y ago
    Its the fragility of the retina display that has me has hesitating. I'm still using an iPad 1; I decided not to upgrade after reading that the retina screen on the iPad 3 cracks on drops that have yet to put a dent in my 1st-gen. If my gf gets the new MBP, the warranty will be absolutely necessary (she drops her laptop constantly, SSD's were a godsend for her).
breckinloggins 14y ago
Just promise us that when you do, you won't become a rabid fanboy yourself. By all rights I should be the biggest fanboy ever. All my computers are Macs. I have an Apple TV. I stood in line to buy the first iPhone on launch day and have owned nothing but iPhones since. I have an iPad. I insist on using Apple services like iTunes so everything "just works" with all my Apple devices. I even converted my whole family from PCs to Macs and, yes, my "family tech support" calls have dropped. But I'm not what you would call a "fanboy". If someone asks why I like Apple products, I try to give rational reasons but I admit from the start that I'm biased and just "like them", plus I "think they're cool". I never sneer at PC users or people with Android phones. I don't make lame jokes about "Winblows" and such. I guess my point is it's possible to become a total convert and still not annoy the heck out of everyone around you. I'm not saying you don't know that, just that you should monitor yourself. Once you become loyal to a brand (Apple, BMW, B&W loudspeakers, whatever) it's sometimes difficult to tell the difference between being a proud evangelist and an annoying cultist. Luckily, I had some friends who helped me whenever I veered too far in the latter direction. :)
- calinet6 14y ago
  IMHO Apple fanboyism is not a problem in the hacker community. It's a well-built solid metal portable development workstation. With BSD UNIX. And a pretty layer on top. Among programmers, I never need to explain why we would buy these things. It's outside the programming groups that the conversation gets hostile. I find most programmers avoid this completely, knowing that they're simply using the best tool available for the job, and ignoring the hype, criticism, and fanboyism. Props, hackers, keep it up.
  - jurre 14y ago
    I study computer science and the amount of banter I get from fellow students for using a macbook air is unbelievable. Other people usually seem quite ok with it, although self proclaimed power users usually seem to have an opinion about it.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
ageektrapped 14y ago
Speaking as a Windows user who uses a Mac for dev on iOS: you will be frustrated by Mac OS, at least initially. I've been using Mac OS daily for over a year and I still find Windows superior in many ways. This is my opinion, of course. Not trying to change minds or trolling. That retina display is dead sexy though.
- breckinloggins 14y ago
  I love my Mac (as I said in my reply to OP), but I agree that Mac OS takes some getting used to. Luckily I had some Linux experience before switching so I felt right at home at the terminal. But some things still feel odd to me, even after several years. - The unified menu bar makes sense and saves space, but it's still somewhat disconcerting to someone who is used to their menus having some spatial context with what they are controlling. - I've always hated the "three gumballs". I much prefer Windows' minimize, maximize, and quit windows controls. Again, the "maximum useful size" feature makes sense, but it's almost never what I want. I really miss Aero snap. There are some programs that will help you out for this stuff. I'm pretty partial to Moom myself. UPDATE: Moom JUST got updated with a "snap to corners" feature. I like it! - The Finder is still pretty brain-dead. Windows explorer is much better for a power-user. - And then there's XCode. Oh how I miss Visual Studio. Yes, XCode is getting nicer by the year, but I also do Windows development on my Parallels VM so I'm constantly reminded of how much nicer it is to code C# in Visual Studio than Objective-C in XCode (and I don't even mind Objective-C as a language).
  - jshen 14y ago
    power-users don't use the finder. They use something like quicksilver or alfred. I'm thinking regular users don't use the finder either. My wife uses spotlight to find her stuff and apps.
  - pyre 14y ago
    > The Finder is still pretty brain-dead. Windows explorer > is much better for a power-user I thought that power-users used PathFinder? (Though I don't know if that's even still in active development. Last time I seriously used OSX was 10.3 ~ 10.4).
barrkel 14y ago
I run Windows on my MBA for when I'm travelling. Apple make fantastic hardware; but their saccharine UIs make me retch. One constant, though: over the past 10 years, I've moved my life further and further into the Cygwin command line, so that I'm insulated from the frippery going on at the edges; with my setup, I'm approximately as at home on Linux, Solaris, Mac and Windows. I'm not optimistic based on what I've seen of Windows 8's direction.
- lazerwalker 14y ago
  Out of curiosity, if you're comfortable with Linux and do a lot of work in a Cygwin environment, what are your reasons for running Windows as your MBA's main OS rather than a Linux flavor?
  - pyre 14y ago
    Within cygwin, you can run Windows executables via bash, for example. I can't speak for the parent, but it would make sense that niceties like that are part of it.
  - masklinn 14y ago
    > rather than a Linux flavor? Or a BSD.
    - iuguy 14y ago
      Or a BSD-derived OS with a hat-tip to NextStep?
  - simcop2387 14y ago
    I don't know it for certain about Airs but with the Pros as i understand there's some issues with bios/hardware support in linux. I don't know how severe as I don't own any of the hardware myself.
    - Wheen 14y ago
      Airs shouldn't be that bad. IIRC, Linus runs one.
protomyth 14y ago
Do spend some time learning about "Services", I get a lot of mileage out of those.
jmsduran 14y ago
Although I didn't watch the keynote, I tuned in to the live tweeting CNN gave. Don't get me wrong, Apple's Macbook Pro is a nice piece of hardware, but I failed to see anything earth-shattering in their recent announcements. At a high level, they're really just upgrading to Ivy Bridge, USB 3.0, and Retina displays across their notebook line. Nothing mind-blowing really.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  A 2880x1880 screen, with top of the line CPU with highest build quality at $2199 IS mind-blowing. Those screens don't come cheap.
  - jarek 14y ago
    We need to remember that it's the nature of technology to continuously improve. We tend to take it for granted, but that is because continuous improvement has been that reliable. 2 MP 15" displays were available in 2002 and were a $2000-laptop technology by 2006 if not earlier. It is not surprising that 5 MP 15" displays are $2000-laptop technology six years later.
    - mturmon 14y ago
      The retina display is a big jump in display resolution. Not all areas of tech allow this kind of big jump. For instance, battery life, or spinning disk access times. So the new display technology is notable in that regard.
      - jarek 14y ago
        Notable? Yes. Mind-blowing? Nah.
    - sfk 14y ago
      Display technology has been stagnating for decades. The "retina" display (if it is as good as promised) might be the first display that matches the quality of ancient IBM flexview displays or rarities like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors So I'm having issues with the statement that technology continuously improves. In many areas that's just not true.
segmond 14y ago
who lied to you and told you was a hacker?
xiaoma 14y ago
I too was windows/nix only until joining a start-up in Beijing that was doing iOS work. It amazes me how quickly I adjusted to Mac OS and after only a year I find it frustrating every time I have to go back to windows. Having just moved to San Francisco myself, I find it nice suddenly being in the majority. Edit: Oh, and as soon as I have a job, I'm getting one! I've been drooling over Ivy Bridge specs for months.
- listic 14y ago
  What's so great about Ivy bridge specs? I'm underwhelmed because electrical economy failed to materialize.
  - trimbo 14y ago
    The new intel graphics are much better for gaming without going to discrete graphics. http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000-Benchmarked.73567.0.html http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000-Benchmar...
    - listic 14y ago
      Yes, that's for sure. It's just unclear if I need any of those improvements except for games (which I'd happily sacrifice on my laptop).
    - syassami 14y ago
      besides gaming applications, how do the previous generation of sandy bridges stand up? (i5 2.4ghz) I heard from minimal to significant. EDIT: found a nice resource for the specific models http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/474/Intel_Core_i5_Mobile_i5-2430M_(PGA)_vs_Intel_Core_i5_Mobile_i5-3210M_(BGA).html http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/474/Intel_Core_i5_Mobile_i5...
steverb 14y ago
To be frank, Apple makes awesome Windows PCs. Their Windows drivers are quite good also. Still hate the placement of the control key on the keyboard though, but I am slowly becoming acclimated to it.
- bermanoid 14y ago
  Remap caps lock to control, and you'll be a lot more comfortable. Unless you use that other text editor, you know, the one that makes you always have to reach for the escape key...in that case, I suppose you should map it to escape instead.
  - steverb 14y ago
    I owe you a beer. Why the heck have I not thought of that before?
    - glhaynes 14y ago
      Just in case you didn't know, this is really easy to do: System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard tab > Modifier Keys.
  - jstepien 14y ago
    echo 'inoremap kj <Esc>' >> ~/.vimrc # works like a charm
    - X-Istence 14y ago
      Wouldn't work too well in Dutch where the kj happens quite a bit in various words.
  - dkersten 14y ago
    you always have to reach for the escape key Nonsense. Map caps lock to control regardless of whether you're an emacs or vim user. If you use vim, control+c does the same as escape and since vim does still use control sometimes, it makes sense to keep control easy to access and just use that (IMHO very easy to press) key combo instead.
deleted 14y ago
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darrenkopp 14y ago
I still don't understand why people want to switch platforms. I'm using a macbook pro with windows. OSX is terrible in my opinion, and so I just use bootcamp and go on my merry way.
fjorder 14y ago
I've spent a reasonable amount of time using Windows, Linux, and OSX. All of them suck. All of them are also awesome, at different things. If you want an living room PC for entertainment, Windows is king. Neither Linux or OSX support Bluray properly and Windows still has a huge edge in gaming. Windows also supports the most hardware. That's become unimportant to most people, but if you work in a research lab with various oddball computer controlled devices around, you are often forced to work with Windows simply because that's the only OS supported by drivers for a lot of things. OSX is the perfect OS for your mother. There's the one "Apple way" of doing things, so if she needs help it's easy to give her some. OSX gets decent battery life (on mac hardware) and still has a few Unix friendly features that haven't been locked away by Apple yet. If you're looking for a ghetto linux workstation, OSX will do in a pinch. I actually spent the better part of last year working under OSX on a Mac Book air. I've used Mac's off and on for decades and this is just the most recent stint (The MBA hardware lured me in this time). It worked, but the OS still puts up too much fight you when you try to customize it. OSX has also gotten rather buggy. I'm relieved to have retired it. As I said, while it would be great for my mother I personally detest OSX. Also, Mac hardware is moving away from the DIY crowd. e.g. The MBA's actually use proprietary screws to keep you out of your own laptop's innards. If you've ever saved a laptop from a coffee spill by disconnecting the battery and opening it up and doing a little cleaning, just bear in mind you won't be able to do that with most future macs. Linux is bug central. Don't get me wrong, it's come a long way from the days when Slackware was king. You can install Ubuntu and almost everything will just work. The devil is in the details though, and if you have a low tolerance for flakiness you'll have to tweak away. However, no other OS is as powerful and flexible. If you want it to do X, it can do X in dozens of different ways. If the journey is as important as the destination for you, Linux is your OS. Windows is all things to all people, but entertainment first and foremost. OSX is for your mother or people who would rather not use a real computer. Linux is for those who embrace the quest. Decide (and be honest with yourself) what kind of user you are and your OS preference will become clear, although what you are forced to use may be different. I currently use both Windows and Linux extensively, and occasionally help my Mom with OSX.
- Inufu 14y ago
  I have found that XBMC makes for the ultimate entertainment PC. Simply install Ubuntu, put XBMC in autostart and enjoy. It catalogs all the movies and TV shows you've got on your HDDs and displays them in a stunning UI.
donniezazen 14y ago
I do not own any apple products because they are outrageously expensive. Why do I think I should buy Macbook Air? Because laptop should be that light and thin. Why I use Linux? It's dead simple. A single command or a simple script can make system management and other tasks so straight forward and no brainier. I have total control on what I want on my system. Of course their is a learning curve but that's the main reason I visit HN.
- ChrisLTD 14y ago
  iOS devices are best in class, or near the top at their price point. Apple laptops and desktops are pricey (although I would argue not outrageously so, especially if you're using them for work), but lower priced alternatives sacrifice a lot in terms of fit & finish.
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  If you like the Air, keep your eye on the market. intel and AMD are both trying to partner with OEM's to finally get some Air competitors out. I cannot recall the marketing name though.
  - X-Istence 14y ago
    Ultrabooks ...
- sciurus 14y ago
  There are plenty of thin and light laptops other than the Macbook Air. http://www.engadget.com/tag/ultrabook/ http://www.engadget.com/tag/ultrabook/
jamesaguilar 14y ago
Interesting. I love Macs and I have one for work, but for home I use Windows because Macs are so bad for gaming. Way I see it, Windows is close enough to being as good as Macs that it doesn't bother me too much to use it, but to my taste Macs are somewhat superior.
reitzensteinm 14y ago
I don't think you'll be alone. With the retina MacBook Pros, Apple really is throwing down the gauntlet here. And not just because of their advantage in hardware; Windows is notoriously hard to program for in a resolution independent way, and the first double resolution laptop displays are going to cause early adopters no end of pain. Even if Windows 8 brings APIs to fix it, the long tail of apps are not going to be updated any time soon. I expect this to be an unusually large and concrete reason for everyday people to choose a Mac laptop for the next few years. Side by side, Macs will look amazing. Looked at a 3GS recently? Eww. Of course, this is assuming OS X has resolution independence nailed; though I'd be amazed if they shipped this if that wasn't the case. (This is a repost of my comment from a rumor thread; not much has changed)
- josephcooney 14y ago
  > Windows is notoriously hard to program for in a resolution independent way Really? Using which API?
  - reitzensteinm 14y ago
    Well, you can use WPF and that pretty much takes care of it from the ground up, but Win32 was never designed to do that. My point is that the long tail of apps in the wild are going to be problematic, regardless of what new apps do.
    - reitzensteinm 14y ago
      OK, so I set my DPI to 200% to check, and I found errors in every app I tried (list below), except for Dropbox, and MonoDevelop. Mostly the errors involve not everything scaling up; certain images or pieces of text will be too small. That said, it was all purely visual stuff, and the errors were more subtle than I was expecting, so maybe my prediction was a little strong. Though if you track off the beaten path, I'm sure it gets worse - that VB6 App you use to track warehouse supplies may be completely broken. I tried whatever I use day to day: Opera, Firefox, Skype, MSN, FlashDevelop, Unity, VLC, UltraEdit, Dropbox, MonoDevelop, TPCView, SmartDefrag
beedogs 14y ago
Enjoy your $2200 15" notebook. In contrast, with this announcement, I've probably bought my last Apple product.
ra 14y ago
I'd like to watch the video, but using Chrome on Linux I just get the message: "Please install QuickTime for mac/pc".

danieldk 14y ago

Why? I have been using a Mac since 2007. So far, I haven't seen anything spectacular in this keynote except for the retina display. But $2199 (probably 2199 Euro in Europe) is a steep price. Edit: Given the lack of real interesting updates in OS X since Leopard and recent iOS versions, I am actually quite interested in Windows 8 and Windows Phone after ~18 years of using Unix-like operating systems and ~5.5 years a Mac.

prezjordan 14y ago
Probably just got pushed over the edge.
gurkendoktor 14y ago
I thought 10.6 was so-so - I preferred Leopard's Exposé. I hate 10.7. But 10.8 makes sense again, especially now that 3rd-party apps are catching up with the concepts of 10.7.
- pkamb 14y ago
  FYI, you can use Leopard's Exposé in Snow Leopard: http://superuser.com/questions/118424/old-leopard-expose-on-snow-leopard-for-mac http://superuser.com/questions/118424/old-leopard-expose-on-... I really miss "all windows" Exposé; Mission Control is not a worthy replacement. Any word on Exposé changes in 10.8?
  - fratis 14y ago
    For me, it's really Spaces whose usefulness was diminished in 10.7. They used to be configurable in multiple dimensions (i.e., X & Y): now they're linear only. Lame city.
    - eieio 14y ago
      I use change space(https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space https://github.com/sdsykes/Change-Space) to get around this, but the fact that I can't have native 2-d spaces really bothers me. Change Space is good, but it does have a few bugs that wouldn't exist if Apple hadn't insisted on breaking spaces for no reason that I'm aware of. I love my Macbook but can't stand the direction of the operating system. It feels like I use more and more hacks like the above just to have a usable machine.
  - gurkendoktor 14y ago
    I used this to the very end :) A friend who first started using OS X with 10.6 saw it and installed it right then too. Good news! There is a system preference in 10.8 to ungroup windows (by application) in Mission Control. Still, the "spaces bar" and dock show up every time you use MC, so there's less real estate than on 10.5. Dragging to the Dock stopped being useful in 10.6 IMHO, that's still the same in 10.8. (In 10.5, dragging an icon to the dock in Exposé would act the same as clicking the icon - e.g. for Skype it would open the window if it was closed.)
- thom 14y ago
  The more apps catch up with 10.7, the more they all do that unbearable fullscreen-on-some-weird-new-unexpected-virtual-desktop thing, yuck.
  - gurkendoktor 14y ago
    To chyme in and rant... iTunes must be the worst offender. I always fullscreen it, because I seldom access it but want it to use all of my 13". Then I start a video podcast. It runs inside the iTunes chrome. I hit cmd+F, it opens a new space. I finish watching the cast. The space closes and I land on the desktop instead of back in iTunes. What? I wish any high-level blogger would start caring about OS X usability again. 10.7 needs more and not less public shaming. I don't think anyone even noticed that mouse/trackpad click-through is different again in 10.7, and for the worse IMHO. :(
moystard 14y ago
As much as I love this new Macbook Pro with this beautiful retina display, Mountain Lion is just another iteration in the iOS direction and I still don't like the user experience. As usual, I will use several tools to get back to the old but good desktop metaphor with less shiny but functional features.
- pkamb 14y ago
  The problem will be when Xcode stops working on Snow Leopard.
  - ericd 14y ago
    I think it already has? That's why I had to finally bite the bullet and upgrade to Lion. My reluctance wasn't unfounded, it turns out.
    - sureshv 14y ago
      Yes, I think with XCode 4.3 I had to upgrade to Lion from Snow Leopard.
    - pkamb 14y ago
      The Mac App Store version is dead for Snow Leopard, but you can still download 10.6 compatible builds directly from the developer portal.
      - ericd 14y ago
        I tried pretty hard to find that, since I'd been able to do that for a previous version, but I came up empty. If you're telling me I could have avoided giving up SL, I'm pretty sad about that.
        tedunangst 14y ago
        I tried as well. There does not appear to be a download link available anywhere for free. Everybody keeps saying you can download it, but I don't think anybody actually has in quite some time, and nobody has posted a link.
mrb 14y ago
Mac Book Pro with Retina display = 2279 EUR in France http://store.apple.com/fr/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro http://store.apple.com/fr/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo...
- jarek 14y ago
  For comparison purposes, before tax this is 1905 €, roughly 2380 USD.

marquis 14y ago

Could you be specific about what swayed you? I'm not sure what is so new, announced today, that you couldn't have bought yesterday: Retina? Will you continue to run Windows?

phamilton 14y ago
It's an Air-like laptop with real performance. It has a real graphics card, can support 16 GB of ram and has a rockin Ivy Bridge processor. The retina display is very impressive as well.
- jarek 14y ago
  It's a 15" laptop. It is not Air-like for any meaningful definition of "Air-like."
  - phamilton 14y ago
    Thinner and lighter than a 13" MBP and lacking an optical drive. I think that's a meaningful definition of "Air-like".
    - jarek 14y ago
      It is in fact marginally lighter than the 13" MacBook Pro, but the difference from the 15" model is less than on the 13" Air. The 13" MacBook Pro is 1.35 kg, and the 13" Macbook Pro is 2.05 kg (53% heavier than the Air). The MacBook Pro with Retina Display (mid-2012) is 2.02 kg while the 15" MacBook Pro is 2.56 kg (27% heavier). This one won't exactly fit in a manila envelope.
- kylebrown 14y ago
  Its the fragility of the retina display that has me has hesitating. I'm still using an iPad 1; I decided not to upgrade after reading that the retina screen on the iPad 3 cracks on drops that have yet to put a dent in my 1st-gen. If my gf gets the new MBP, the warranty will be absolutely necessary (she drops her laptop constantly, SSD's were a godsend for her).

breckinloggins 14y ago

Just promise us that when you do, you won't become a rabid fanboy yourself. By all rights I should be the biggest fanboy ever. All my computers are Macs. I have an Apple TV. I stood in line to buy the first iPhone on launch day and have owned nothing but iPhones since. I have an iPad. I insist on using Apple services like iTunes so everything "just works" with all my Apple devices. I even converted my whole family from PCs to Macs and, yes, my "family tech support" calls have dropped. But I'm not what you would call a "fanboy". If someone asks why I like Apple products, I try to give rational reasons but I admit from the start that I'm biased and just "like them", plus I "think they're cool". I never sneer at PC users or people with Android phones. I don't make lame jokes about "Winblows" and such. I guess my point is it's possible to become a total convert and still not annoy the heck out of everyone around you. I'm not saying you don't know that, just that you should monitor yourself. Once you become loyal to a brand (Apple, BMW, B&W loudspeakers, whatever) it's sometimes difficult to tell the difference between being a proud evangelist and an annoying cultist. Luckily, I had some friends who helped me whenever I veered too far in the latter direction. :)

calinet6 14y ago
IMHO Apple fanboyism is not a problem in the hacker community. It's a well-built solid metal portable development workstation. With BSD UNIX. And a pretty layer on top. Among programmers, I never need to explain why we would buy these things. It's outside the programming groups that the conversation gets hostile. I find most programmers avoid this completely, knowing that they're simply using the best tool available for the job, and ignoring the hype, criticism, and fanboyism. Props, hackers, keep it up.
- jurre 14y ago
  I study computer science and the amount of banter I get from fellow students for using a macbook air is unbelievable. Other people usually seem quite ok with it, although self proclaimed power users usually seem to have an opinion about it.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago

ageektrapped 14y ago

Speaking as a Windows user who uses a Mac for dev on iOS: you will be frustrated by Mac OS, at least initially. I've been using Mac OS daily for over a year and I still find Windows superior in many ways. This is my opinion, of course. Not trying to change minds or trolling. That retina display is dead sexy though.

breckinloggins 14y ago
I love my Mac (as I said in my reply to OP), but I agree that Mac OS takes some getting used to. Luckily I had some Linux experience before switching so I felt right at home at the terminal. But some things still feel odd to me, even after several years. - The unified menu bar makes sense and saves space, but it's still somewhat disconcerting to someone who is used to their menus having some spatial context with what they are controlling. - I've always hated the "three gumballs". I much prefer Windows' minimize, maximize, and quit windows controls. Again, the "maximum useful size" feature makes sense, but it's almost never what I want. I really miss Aero snap. There are some programs that will help you out for this stuff. I'm pretty partial to Moom myself. UPDATE: Moom JUST got updated with a "snap to corners" feature. I like it! - The Finder is still pretty brain-dead. Windows explorer is much better for a power-user. - And then there's XCode. Oh how I miss Visual Studio. Yes, XCode is getting nicer by the year, but I also do Windows development on my Parallels VM so I'm constantly reminded of how much nicer it is to code C# in Visual Studio than Objective-C in XCode (and I don't even mind Objective-C as a language).
- jshen 14y ago
  power-users don't use the finder. They use something like quicksilver or alfred. I'm thinking regular users don't use the finder either. My wife uses spotlight to find her stuff and apps.
- pyre 14y ago
  > The Finder is still pretty brain-dead. Windows explorer > is much better for a power-user I thought that power-users used PathFinder? (Though I don't know if that's even still in active development. Last time I seriously used OSX was 10.3 ~ 10.4).

barrkel 14y ago

I run Windows on my MBA for when I'm travelling. Apple make fantastic hardware; but their saccharine UIs make me retch. One constant, though: over the past 10 years, I've moved my life further and further into the Cygwin command line, so that I'm insulated from the frippery going on at the edges; with my setup, I'm approximately as at home on Linux, Solaris, Mac and Windows. I'm not optimistic based on what I've seen of Windows 8's direction.

lazerwalker 14y ago
Out of curiosity, if you're comfortable with Linux and do a lot of work in a Cygwin environment, what are your reasons for running Windows as your MBA's main OS rather than a Linux flavor?
- pyre 14y ago
  Within cygwin, you can run Windows executables via bash, for example. I can't speak for the parent, but it would make sense that niceties like that are part of it.
- masklinn 14y ago
  > rather than a Linux flavor? Or a BSD.
  - iuguy 14y ago
    Or a BSD-derived OS with a hat-tip to NextStep?
- simcop2387 14y ago
  I don't know it for certain about Airs but with the Pros as i understand there's some issues with bios/hardware support in linux. I don't know how severe as I don't own any of the hardware myself.
  - Wheen 14y ago
    Airs shouldn't be that bad. IIRC, Linus runs one.

protomyth 14y ago

Do spend some time learning about "Services", I get a lot of mileage out of those.

jmsduran 14y ago

Although I didn't watch the keynote, I tuned in to the live tweeting CNN gave. Don't get me wrong, Apple's Macbook Pro is a nice piece of hardware, but I failed to see anything earth-shattering in their recent announcements. At a high level, they're really just upgrading to Ivy Bridge, USB 3.0, and Retina displays across their notebook line. Nothing mind-blowing really.

pooriaazimi 14y ago
A 2880x1880 screen, with top of the line CPU with highest build quality at $2199 IS mind-blowing. Those screens don't come cheap.
- jarek 14y ago
  We need to remember that it's the nature of technology to continuously improve. We tend to take it for granted, but that is because continuous improvement has been that reliable. 2 MP 15" displays were available in 2002 and were a $2000-laptop technology by 2006 if not earlier. It is not surprising that 5 MP 15" displays are $2000-laptop technology six years later.
  - mturmon 14y ago
    The retina display is a big jump in display resolution. Not all areas of tech allow this kind of big jump. For instance, battery life, or spinning disk access times. So the new display technology is notable in that regard.
    - jarek 14y ago
      Notable? Yes. Mind-blowing? Nah.
  - sfk 14y ago
    Display technology has been stagnating for decades. The "retina" display (if it is as good as promised) might be the first display that matches the quality of ancient IBM flexview displays or rarities like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors So I'm having issues with the statement that technology continuously improves. In many areas that's just not true.

segmond 14y ago

who lied to you and told you was a hacker?

xiaoma 14y ago

I too was windows/nix only until joining a start-up in Beijing that was doing iOS work. It amazes me how quickly I adjusted to Mac OS and after only a year I find it frustrating every time I have to go back to windows. Having just moved to San Francisco myself, I find it nice suddenly being in the majority. Edit: Oh, and as soon as I have a job, I'm getting one! I've been drooling over Ivy Bridge specs for months.

listic 14y ago
What's so great about Ivy bridge specs? I'm underwhelmed because electrical economy failed to materialize.
- trimbo 14y ago
  The new intel graphics are much better for gaming without going to discrete graphics. http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000-Benchmarked.73567.0.html http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000-Benchmar...
  - listic 14y ago
    Yes, that's for sure. It's just unclear if I need any of those improvements except for games (which I'd happily sacrifice on my laptop).
  - syassami 14y ago
    besides gaming applications, how do the previous generation of sandy bridges stand up? (i5 2.4ghz) I heard from minimal to significant. EDIT: found a nice resource for the specific models http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/474/Intel_Core_i5_Mobile_i5-2430M_(PGA)_vs_Intel_Core_i5_Mobile_i5-3210M_(BGA).html http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/474/Intel_Core_i5_Mobile_i5...

steverb 14y ago

To be frank, Apple makes awesome Windows PCs. Their Windows drivers are quite good also. Still hate the placement of the control key on the keyboard though, but I am slowly becoming acclimated to it.

bermanoid 14y ago
Remap caps lock to control, and you'll be a lot more comfortable. Unless you use that other text editor, you know, the one that makes you always have to reach for the escape key...in that case, I suppose you should map it to escape instead.
- steverb 14y ago
  I owe you a beer. Why the heck have I not thought of that before?
  - glhaynes 14y ago
    Just in case you didn't know, this is really easy to do: System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard tab > Modifier Keys.
- jstepien 14y ago
  echo 'inoremap kj <Esc>' >> ~/.vimrc # works like a charm
  - X-Istence 14y ago
    Wouldn't work too well in Dutch where the kj happens quite a bit in various words.
- dkersten 14y ago
  you always have to reach for the escape key Nonsense. Map caps lock to control regardless of whether you're an emacs or vim user. If you use vim, control+c does the same as escape and since vim does still use control sometimes, it makes sense to keep control easy to access and just use that (IMHO very easy to press) key combo instead.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

darrenkopp 14y ago

I still don't understand why people want to switch platforms. I'm using a macbook pro with windows. OSX is terrible in my opinion, and so I just use bootcamp and go on my merry way.

fjorder 14y ago

I've spent a reasonable amount of time using Windows, Linux, and OSX. All of them suck. All of them are also awesome, at different things. If you want an living room PC for entertainment, Windows is king. Neither Linux or OSX support Bluray properly and Windows still has a huge edge in gaming. Windows also supports the most hardware. That's become unimportant to most people, but if you work in a research lab with various oddball computer controlled devices around, you are often forced to work with Windows simply because that's the only OS supported by drivers for a lot of things. OSX is the perfect OS for your mother. There's the one "Apple way" of doing things, so if she needs help it's easy to give her some. OSX gets decent battery life (on mac hardware) and still has a few Unix friendly features that haven't been locked away by Apple yet. If you're looking for a ghetto linux workstation, OSX will do in a pinch. I actually spent the better part of last year working under OSX on a Mac Book air. I've used Mac's off and on for decades and this is just the most recent stint (The MBA hardware lured me in this time). It worked, but the OS still puts up too much fight you when you try to customize it. OSX has also gotten rather buggy. I'm relieved to have retired it. As I said, while it would be great for my mother I personally detest OSX. Also, Mac hardware is moving away from the DIY crowd. e.g. The MBA's actually use proprietary screws to keep you out of your own laptop's innards. If you've ever saved a laptop from a coffee spill by disconnecting the battery and opening it up and doing a little cleaning, just bear in mind you won't be able to do that with most future macs. Linux is bug central. Don't get me wrong, it's come a long way from the days when Slackware was king. You can install Ubuntu and almost everything will just work. The devil is in the details though, and if you have a low tolerance for flakiness you'll have to tweak away. However, no other OS is as powerful and flexible. If you want it to do X, it can do X in dozens of different ways. If the journey is as important as the destination for you, Linux is your OS. Windows is all things to all people, but entertainment first and foremost. OSX is for your mother or people who would rather not use a real computer. Linux is for those who embrace the quest. Decide (and be honest with yourself) what kind of user you are and your OS preference will become clear, although what you are forced to use may be different. I currently use both Windows and Linux extensively, and occasionally help my Mom with OSX.

Inufu 14y ago
I have found that XBMC makes for the ultimate entertainment PC. Simply install Ubuntu, put XBMC in autostart and enjoy. It catalogs all the movies and TV shows you've got on your HDDs and displays them in a stunning UI.

donniezazen 14y ago

I do not own any apple products because they are outrageously expensive. Why do I think I should buy Macbook Air? Because laptop should be that light and thin. Why I use Linux? It's dead simple. A single command or a simple script can make system management and other tasks so straight forward and no brainier. I have total control on what I want on my system. Of course their is a learning curve but that's the main reason I visit HN.

ChrisLTD 14y ago
iOS devices are best in class, or near the top at their price point. Apple laptops and desktops are pricey (although I would argue not outrageously so, especially if you're using them for work), but lower priced alternatives sacrifice a lot in terms of fit & finish.
sliverstorm 14y ago
If you like the Air, keep your eye on the market. intel and AMD are both trying to partner with OEM's to finally get some Air competitors out. I cannot recall the marketing name though.
- X-Istence 14y ago
  Ultrabooks ...
sciurus 14y ago
There are plenty of thin and light laptops other than the Macbook Air. http://www.engadget.com/tag/ultrabook/ http://www.engadget.com/tag/ultrabook/

jamesaguilar 14y ago

Interesting. I love Macs and I have one for work, but for home I use Windows because Macs are so bad for gaming. Way I see it, Windows is close enough to being as good as Macs that it doesn't bother me too much to use it, but to my taste Macs are somewhat superior.

reitzensteinm 14y ago

I don't think you'll be alone. With the retina MacBook Pros, Apple really is throwing down the gauntlet here. And not just because of their advantage in hardware; Windows is notoriously hard to program for in a resolution independent way, and the first double resolution laptop displays are going to cause early adopters no end of pain. Even if Windows 8 brings APIs to fix it, the long tail of apps are not going to be updated any time soon. I expect this to be an unusually large and concrete reason for everyday people to choose a Mac laptop for the next few years. Side by side, Macs will look amazing. Looked at a 3GS recently? Eww. Of course, this is assuming OS X has resolution independence nailed; though I'd be amazed if they shipped this if that wasn't the case. (This is a repost of my comment from a rumor thread; not much has changed)

josephcooney 14y ago
> Windows is notoriously hard to program for in a resolution independent way Really? Using which API?
- reitzensteinm 14y ago
  Well, you can use WPF and that pretty much takes care of it from the ground up, but Win32 was never designed to do that. My point is that the long tail of apps in the wild are going to be problematic, regardless of what new apps do.
  - reitzensteinm 14y ago
    OK, so I set my DPI to 200% to check, and I found errors in every app I tried (list below), except for Dropbox, and MonoDevelop. Mostly the errors involve not everything scaling up; certain images or pieces of text will be too small. That said, it was all purely visual stuff, and the errors were more subtle than I was expecting, so maybe my prediction was a little strong. Though if you track off the beaten path, I'm sure it gets worse - that VB6 App you use to track warehouse supplies may be completely broken. I tried whatever I use day to day: Opera, Firefox, Skype, MSN, FlashDevelop, Unity, VLC, UltraEdit, Dropbox, MonoDevelop, TPCView, SmartDefrag

beedogs 14y ago

Enjoy your $2200 15" notebook. In contrast, with this announcement, I've probably bought my last Apple product.

ra 14y ago

I'd like to watch the video, but using Chrome on Linux I just get the message: "Please install QuickTime for mac/pc".