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Tell HN: your next idea should focus on aged care

130 points by thornjm 2y ago

I’m a nobody in a medicine role but with a previous career in engineering. I’ve just had a poorly thought out mild epiphany realizing what’s been staring me (and I’m sure everyone else) in the face: There is a huge burden of simple care tasks assisting people with transferring, mobility, dressing, showering, feeding, memory, medications etc. Individually: The carer role is hard, physical, foul, violent, confronting, and worst of all 24/7. Systemically: Half of the health system is clogged full of people admitted for social / care issues rather than medical issues. The population is aging and people are living longer with more severe deficits. There is a huge volume of exploited laborers keeping the system afloat. It’s almost certainly a technical impossibility to solve a fraction of these problems and a large proportion of them likely need socially acceptable and safe human-robot interactions. However, a brilliant / affordable solution to getting grandpa out of bed or wiping his butt or engaging his mind could dramatically improve care timeliness, quality, safety, frequency, etc. and revolutionize parts of industries. If you’re an entrepreneur looking for ripe territory consider literally any problem in aged / disability / nursing care. TL;DR less hype / investment in self driving cars and AI that can solve esoteric BAR exams and more focus on helping grandpa safely stand and walk to the bathroom. </rant>

k310 2y ago
Agree. Simple stuff that people really need is missing. I mean really simple. I can't read product labels even with serious myopia and a magnifying lens. Only Trader Joe's makes readable shelf signage. Use-by dates take 30 seconds to even find. And there are tons more things. I made a list ... It's getting longer. Thanks for posting this.
- sillysaurusx 2y ago
  What else is on the list? That's interesting.
  - k310 2y ago
    Shortly, I just rode out a heat wave. Glad to share. I'm 75 and very in tune with needs!
    - czbond 2y ago
      @k310 - I have to ask, is k310 your ham radio handle?
      - k310 2y ago
        k310 is both the Koechel number of a great Mozart piano sonata, but the office number I had at Itek Optical Systems in Lexington, MA, now something else. When I was crazy interested in ham radio as a kid, I didn't have enough money to buy or build any gear. I'd buy schematics and build stuff in my mind, which may account for some quirks, but they're almost entirely good quirks, which is why I am posting to help others, with problems way bigger than my own. Thanks for asking!
  - k310 2y ago
    I can share some really important things I’d like to see for seniors. I am leaving out some innovative ideas that go beyond these, because “first things first”. Here are some. Anything to help low vision (and that’s a giant problem) One periodical I get has some white text on a bright yellow background. Solution: I wrote them. Waiting … Finding things, whether in the home or at local stores (whose inventory varies, as in “Stuff comes and goes at Trader Joe’s”) or even online (which is tough for many people since online stuff is largely bogus scams bolstered by SEO) Home and food and medicine inventory (data to be private and not fed to sellers, thank you.) Exoskeletons. This technology is already old. What’s the hang-up? Other mobility? Backpacks that have gyroscopes built in to stabilize people. Fall mitigation. TBD Finding real help nearby, trusted people, not “pay to get referrals” right now, as in “I’m in a jam”. Includes tech advice. And spares to loan. Filtering email and websites for scams and malware. Any sane noncommercial alternative to “social media”. (That’s a larger issue but very important in my mind, which is free of them) That opens the matter of getting important, pertinent, personal and timely news and situational awareness rather than noise. (See above) Creating secure family communications to bust AI-generated phony ransom calls (and more) Simple robotics, of the “bring your slippers and reading glasses” sort. Cellphone, too. Seems it’s always charging when I need it. Oh, and since I’m in the foothills, places to go when there’s an evacuation, power is out, and cool places to hang out. I think these address major unmet needs. I would hate to see them enshittified. Other ideas will improve quality of life, but first things first.
- gumby 2y ago
  A program that parses an arbitrary shelf label and then displays a large-print normalized representation (like the nutrition label) would be valuable.
  - ChrisGranger 2y ago
    Like Firefox's Reader View for real life.
    - 93po 2y ago
      can i please also have ublock for real life, i am so tired of outdoor advertising, it's basically the only place i see ads now
      - 6510 2y ago
        vandalism as a service
        93po 2y ago
        i live in houston which was just hit by a hurricane - one of the upsides being most of the billboards have been shredded, which is a nice improvement over mind polluting ads thanks hurricane beryl
        gumby 2y ago
        The ban* on billboards on Interstate highways was thanks to a famous Texan, Lady Bird Johnson. * The few you do still see today are legacy billboards that date from when the legislation was passed, around 1965.
      - adamomada 2y ago
        Imho this is going to be the killer app for Vision headset type devices when they get cheap and available: An AI powered uBlock Origin that can recognize logos and advertising and blank them out.
- ed 2y ago
  iOS has a built-in app called “magnifier” which might be more handy than a lens!
  - k310 2y ago
    Many product labels and prices are situated very high and very low. I end up taking a photo to capture the info. I also like to visit thrift stores, and being practical, I snap photos of weird and wonderful items rather than buying them.
chillingeffect 2y ago
Yep. Spend an hour with an elderly person trying to do things like change a password, unsub from a mailing list, connect a Roku, look at a digital photo album, etc. Will blow your mind wide open. We basically need an entire tier of easy internet for the elderly.
- pzo 2y ago
  Wouldn’t tech illiteracy eventually die out? Millenials are good with tech and gen z even better. It’s probably still a good niche for the next 20 years. On the other hand poor fitness and mental wellbeing seems affects all age groups.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Tech illiteracy will only die out if technology finally plateaus. The elderly were great with the technology that was popular when they were in their forties too, the problem is that technology didn't stand still from there.
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    Tech literacy seems to be dropping with newer generations. I taught a basic after school coding class, and the first thing I had to teach was the concept of a file, a folder, saving and loading. These are things that everyone I went to school with understood in primary school. Apps have abstracted it all away, and now kids just go for the search bar.
  - asveikau 2y ago
    I think normies (not hn reading outliers) in Gen Z and alpha may have regressed. Younger people come up in the era of devices and apps hiding the existence of a filesystem from you.
    - tcmart14 2y ago
      I don't think there is any regression. I think if anything, really overestimating how much people understood. Being a millennial and knowing a lot of other millennials and gen-xers, They can drag and drop, but they really don't understand much more than a folder is something files can go in. Files, you can tell them its fairy dust in a box and they'd believe it. Its just magic. I also work on a point of sale system with many users and clients who are gen-x and millenials, and seeing what customer support tackles, I don't think most normies ever really understood.
Mathnerd314 2y ago
I'm working on a fitness app, I was mostly thinking about myself but as soon as I looked at best-selling fitness books it was clear that the market was pretty much all seniors. Although it could just be that seniors like books more, I also found similar trends in other media.
lolinder 2y ago
> or wiping his butt Slightly weird take: bidets have this field fully covered and the only thing stopping them from being widely used (especially in this domain!) is user resistance to an unfamiliar solution to a very personal problem. We don't need new tech for this, we just need a marketing breakthrough.
- asveikau 2y ago
  User resistance only gets harder with older people. They will be set in their ways.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Yep, and that resistance will kill almost all attempts to design tech like this. Anyone who is interested in this space needs to look at what Kimberly-Clark did to make Depends a (more or less) accepted part of aging.
- Duanemclemore 2y ago
  Having worked in high end residential, I can tell ya the LAST person who's going to want to use a bidet is ironically also the hypothetical "grandpa" who's not rich enough to hire someone to wipe his a$$.
  - episteme 2y ago
    I imagine you are allowed to say ass in this context :)
    - Duanemclemore 2y ago
      Aw, but it's funny to self-censor for no reason!
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    Europeans have no problem using them
abhiyerra 2y ago
In about 5 years the baby boomers will have all hit retirement age. With social security and Medicare there will likely be a significant amount spent on healthcare taking care of this generation.
Rinum 2y ago
Big barriers to entry: regulation, liability, and reimbursement/payment
czbond 2y ago
Yes - but it is so hard to find persistence and passion for such problems (at least for me).
- Duanemclemore 2y ago
  I know where you're coming from, 100%. But I want to share something that's stayed with me to this day. When I was in graduate school for architecture fifteen years ago I saw a lecture by an architect I already respected greatly named Niall McLaughlin. He taught at the school (still does I think) so on four consecutive Wednesdays he gave these astounding two hour lectures. And he would take questions after until every question was answered. These events sometimes lasted 3 - 4 hours. The themes were "Architecture and ..." The two I remember without going back into my notes were "Architecture and Tools" and "Architecture and Memory." This whole shaggy dog story is because "Architecture and Memory" started at the philosophical level but by the end tied in to his own work on memory care facilities. He's a famous architect. Has since won the Sterling Prize, the biggest prize awarded by RIBA. A. Big. Deal. And I don't even know if he publishes his memory care facilities. But he got into that market - he shared with us - because he had a close family member who needed that care. Flash forward ten years and I'm spending time in a memory care facility with a very close family member. Thinking back to his experience, knowing how it felt. Realizing his personal empathy drove him to pursue a whole area of practice that most would never consider. I doubt he lost money doing these facilities but I can assure you he wasn't doing it for the high profit margins. I'm absolutely not knocking your statement. The exact opposite sentiment is coming through I hope. If it's an area you're interested in exploring how to delve into and develop ideas within - find a reason to care. What I mean is - if you're interested in developing solutions in the area find a way to identify a real world problem worth solving in it. Volunteer a little at a nursing home or community center with senior programs, meet people facing the issues that come with aging. Not to say you'd be doing it to be opportunist, but if you're looking for a "product market fit," start by observing the real and present every day challenges of the market. Use it to build the product story. I don't want to sound ghoulish in my biz-speak, but it's real - I think we all have personal experiences where knowing someone going through something gave us a reason to care about that issue in a broader sense. Good luck - it's an area that is flush with problems worth solving, and I think could be rewarding to explore.
deleted 2y ago
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Duanemclemore 2y ago
Architect here. (the building kind.) "Aging in Place" and "Universal Design" are two of the most transformative, difficult, subtle, and important problems facing us today. Other countries are building social structures to address the systemic issues associated with aging. But because of the nature of our healthcare and bureaucratic systems, we have a unique need for interventions in physical conditions - be it small-scale building modifications or assistive technologies. So, especially if you want to innovate making -stuff- I concur wholeheartedly. That said - it looks like the comments until now on this are mostly looking at software-based assistive technologies. Which is ALSO a spot-freaking-on approach.
lcabral 2y ago
I think this is some already being looked at in some aging societies. Look at Japan and even China where they have a lack of nursing personnel. They are looking at the humanoid robot hype with a keen eye for supporting people in the future. And there are likely many other research being done with emphasis on these societies that could show us problems that need solutions.
cynicalsecurity 2y ago
There is no money in this business to make. Someone who didn't think of their old age in advance definitely hasn't got any money now. Sure, you can try to milk the government, but this is not really a sustainable business.
- thornjm 2y ago
  Many staff in different roles, 3+ shifts a day, 365 days a year is a lot of labour costs. Replacing even a fraction of labour is likely $100K a year of potential investment. More so in expensive labour countries.
- donw 2y ago
  Retirement homes are basically in the business of funneling the life savings of elderly residents into their own coffers. For a fully mobile senior requiring no additional care, you're looking at a minimum of USD $3500/month at an assisted living facility. Add in any nursing needs, and that number will quickly go north of $5k/month. Once you start heading towards your late 80s, that number again quickly doubles. Note that this does not include medical care, diapers, clothing, a phone, etc. And this is the bottom of the market. A higher-end home will run double if not more. In Japan, there are homes for every income tier, from "nothing more than a government pension" on up. Sure, the lower-end homes aren't great, but they beat homelessness by a wide margin. And these are private businesses, not government-run facilities.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
ggm 2y ago
Where i live in an apartment complex the ground floor retail outlets struggle. They'd make awesome podiatry, physio, optical, aged care, you name it. With increasing trend to care in the home, and with apartment living common for the elderly, these kinds of service tenancy seem like a no brainer: your clientele is all around you.
aaron695 2y ago
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000ooo000 2y ago
You've got it all wrong. Entrepreneurs aren't short on ideas; they're short on ideas that will make them rich. Why/Who's paying for a robot to wipe grandpa's butt when "there's a huge volume of exploited laborers keeping the system afloat"?
- 6510 2y ago
  You could advertise the robot then send and exploited laborer to do the robot job as a success story, could have robot operators in far away lands and for select elderly a robot suit would be sufficient.
  - warkdarrior 2y ago
    Is that going to be cheaper than actual immigrant labor?
rramadass 2y ago
I have been looking at this domain for a while now and thinking about how one might become a "Social Entrepreneur" in this domain. As an example, India has now included all senior citizens over 70 under its Universal Health Coverage umbrella (https://nha.gov.in/PM-JAY https://nha.gov.in/PM-JAY) and hence the need for these services/organizations have become more pressing. In developed countries with a large aging population the situation is even more dire. The main issues i can think of are; 1) Regulations - Govt. mandated laws on access to health records, personal liability etc. 2) Insurance - Can these services be charged under govt./private insurance schemes/claims? 3) Personnel Training - All employees must be trained in aspects of Nursing and People management, there must be on-call Doctors etc. 4) Wellness Centers - Places where the elderly can be brought in for regular companionship and prophylactic exercises. 5) Transport - A fleet of vehicles to transport the elderly to and from their homes. 6) Supplies - Medicines and everything else as needed. There are three main models that i can think of; a) The "standard" elder care homes which take care of everything for a fee. b) A live-in nurse/maid/caretaker employed through a agency (popular in developing countries) where the person lives with the family taking care of the elder. You pay a monthly fee to the agency and they pay the caretaker's salary after taking their cut. c) A on-demand comprehensive health services company. This can be a non-profit/for-profit organization offering various services (medical/support/companionship etc.) to the elderly who live alone or have nobody to look after them. Services could be offered based on the needs and on a yearly/monthly contracts or as needed per call. Think of it as Uber/Wework for Healthcare. I think this is the need of the hour since there is a huge population above 50 worldwide living alone. Just helping them maintain their health will go a long way towards easing the pressure on the healthcare system leaving the hospitals free to serve those who need it most. To drive the point home, watch this 3-part documentary series on "Living and Dying Alone in Singapore" to get an idea of what awaits many senior citizens - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d499mlwXWfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d499mlwXWfk The organization mentioned in the above documentary and from which we can learn is here - https://chenghongwelfare.org https://chenghongwelfare.org
badpun 2y ago
The Japanese have been supposedly working on robots to support their aging population for a couple of decades now. It sure seems to be extremely difficult to make progress in this field (and in robotics in general). Also, as you noted, half the picture are people whose problems are self-inflicted, mostly due to bad lifestyles. Right now, companies profit off bad lifestyles (first by selling them and them by helping to manage consequences). No comercial entity will profit from population keeping itself healthy and balanced, as mostly involves substraction (NOT doing some things) and not addition (doing/buying). It's a awareness and policy issue, and can only be fixed through either campaigns promoting good living, and through policies which enable it (more vacation time for workers, healthier food in stores, less stress due to economic pressures etc.).
binary132 2y ago
The reality of elder care is that (especially) infirm old folks really need a lot of hard, difficult, unpleasant care that our economic system has made basically impossible for their children and extended families to perform, as would have probably been done in the past. This requirement isn’t going to go away. There will be no cheap, safe, efficient butt-wiping robot, and unmotivated, uninvolved third parties are going to keep doing lousy jobs and getting old folks hurt. Technology is not going to make much of a dent in this one.
- octopoc 2y ago
  This is true for most cases. However in my family we have special circumstances: because my grandfather is a veteran, my father is paid to take care of him. It is an absolutely phenomenal experience for our family and has brought us all together. If we could enable this again for everyone that would be good for everyone in terms of mental health.
  - binary132 2y ago
    I think it would be great if states offered support to people who were willing to be caregivers to their elders and children. These are essential roles that cannot really be replaced.
  - antiatheist 2y ago
    This is available to anyone in Australia, although ~$500-600 a week isn't enough to support the carer and the one they care for in most personal circumstances. https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/carer-payment https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/carer-payment
    - mettamage 2y ago
      Same in NL, I don't know about the pay though.
    - blackbaze 2y ago
      Minimum wage by contrast is $915 a week
snapplebobapple 2y ago
The corrollary of this is you need to hustle now because there is maybe 15 years left before the majority of boomers cease to be customers due to dieing and the next generation is much smaller. You need to capture yoyr market share now then weather 20 years of less exciting before the millenials ramp up demand hard again
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  Just have n64s and phish cover bands in your nursing home and you will capture more of the aging gen x population than you will know what to do with.
aio2 2y ago
Not about your point to develop a new project, but is the population aging? I know in certain areas, yes, they are, but a quick look at one of those population pyramids shows places like the US, with a more even population age group, meaning the population as a whole isn't generally getting older. Please enlighten me though, I know almost nothing of this field.
- dukeyukey 2y ago
  The US doesn't have an even population pyramid, there's a bulge of late baby boomers and late millennials, but none for Gen Z.
  - aio2 2y ago
    This is my source: https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2023/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2... As you can see, the percentages for each age group are close to each other, meaning it's more even.
    - djokkataja 2y ago
      It's called a population pyramid because the shape of that graph for a growing population is a pyramid. If you look at some of the African countries on that site (like, say, Uganda and the United Republic of Tanzania, if you're starting from the United States page), you can see they're closer to a pyramid shape because they have higher birth rates and higher mortality over time. Also, on the graph you linked to, you can click on the line in the graph of population versus year to the right, and if you start back in the 1950s and work your way along to the present, you can see the big lump of the baby boomers getting older. That's why people say the United States has an aging population.
    - dukeyukey 2y ago
      It's more even than most other developed countries, but it's easy to see there are _significantly_ fewer 0-4s than 30-34. In fact, there are less of every 5-year age group than the 30-34s. So yeah, that graph shows the US is, on average, getting older. Immigration helps patch the numbers a bit, but the US immigration system attracts older candidates than most.
r_singh 2y ago
Capitalism or things you can buy are only good for things that can be measured but there are lots of things that need to be and are done in the world everyday that cannot be measured especially coming to self care, child care and elderly care
guilhas 2y ago
Loneliness is a big one, maybe boomerMeetup.com Day centers for old people used to be very popular But I would say there should be better health lifestyle guidelines for everyone to avoid being incapacitated. How in rural Europe and Africa you still see 80 and 90 year olds still digging land, saw an 100 year old lady, in Africa, still doing accounting for local businesses Maybe is the lack of sleep, unhealthy food, too much coffee, alcohol excess, too many pills... but people should watch out the bill will come
bzmrgonz 2y ago
I think improvements to the electric-exo-skeleton contraption can keep the elderly mobile for an additional 10 years.. There comes a time when an elderly person cannot take a flight of 2 or 3 step stairs and that's when they stop moving, so if the exoskeleton can get them to the track or a flat area where they can walk, I think it can help tremendously. Additionally, I think those 2 circle zero gravity contraptions might help with circulation. As for the butt wiping, that's a tough one, but only because of the stigma associated with wearing anything on the sphincter, I can see a 12v electric sphincter dilating aparatus being very efficient in controlling bowel movement, but I don't see our childish society accepting them with a straight face.
bradgranath 2y ago
"There is a huge volume of exploited laborers keeping the system afloat." This is the problem that needs fixing. And not with fuckin' robots with butt lasers.
- atemerev 2y ago
  Err, how? They are doing it voluntarily. They want these jobs. They can work at other jobs too, but that would be an education startup opportunity.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    Voluntarily? As in they could just stop working and they'd be fine?
    - atemerev 2y ago
      As if they prefer this work to not earning money at all. Unless you are really rich, you can’t stop working and be fine too. I surely can’t.
SkyPuncher 2y ago
I actually ran a health tech startup in this space within the past decade. It’s basically a no go market. Patients don’t have the funds themselves. Those that do simply hire a dedicated, private staff. Children don’t want to pay for it since they view it as there parent’s expense. Everyone views it as a cost that the healthcare system should cover - even though there isn’t money for it.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  Your response makes sense to me, but it also highlights why I've become so disillusioned with "tech" generally over the course of my 25 year career. My optimism about tech used to be because I saw tech as solving humanities most pressing needs (even if it usually has unintended consequences like pollution, etc.) But now I see tech (most of the time, obviously I'm speaking in broad generalities) as not even bothering with pressing problems because you can make more money hijacking dopamine pathways to sell ads. I mean, when I think of tech that would actually improve my life I think about things like a clothes-folding machine, not a program that writes mediocre poetry.
  - dingnuts 2y ago
    > think of tech that would actually improve my life I think about things like a clothes-folding machine, I think about this constantly, and it's a funny example because apparently the math involved for figuring out how to fold clothes is basically an unsolved problem. As I understand it the robotics -- also a very hard unsolved problem -- are the easy part, which should emphasize how horribly hard this problem is. Several other things: 1) I recently saw a LinkedIn lunatic claim laundry was already automated, because laundry machines exist (way to out yourself as someone who never helps with laundry) > mediocre poetry 2) I refuse to call language models "intelligence" until they can at least meaningfully contribute to the design of novel devices like the robots we are discussing. If it can't invent, it's not intelligent! Intelligent things are capable of novelty, not only regurgitating existing witnessed patterns.
instagib 2y ago
The exploited laborers part is true and you never know how the care is going. Someone noticed rashes showing up on an elderly person and installed an in bathroom hidden camera. They were leaving them in the bathroom for hours and exiting/re-entering through the window.
greentxt 2y ago
Inflation and fiscal irresponsibility are central to this issue. It just takes a really selfish generation and a political system that rewards myopic policy to create this sort of gerontocratic inequity. The fix is fiscal responsibility and fostering a culture of personal responsibility rather than a culture of "the government owes it to me" which is pretty obviously not sustainable. The sins of the father... There is no money here, only debts, both monitary and moral.
altdataseller 2y ago
If you think its such a huge obvious problem, i guess the obvious Q is why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and why aren’t you pursuing it? (Assuming you aren’t)
antwerp1 2y ago
…and let us know before your company goes public
written-beyond 2y ago
We've actually built something in this line and are in the process of open sourcing it in a few weeks. Very small underfunded team, which makes us a little slower.

130 points by thornjm 2y ago

k310 2y ago

Agree. Simple stuff that people really need is missing. I mean really simple. I can't read product labels even with serious myopia and a magnifying lens. Only Trader Joe's makes readable shelf signage. Use-by dates take 30 seconds to even find. And there are tons more things. I made a list ... It's getting longer. Thanks for posting this.

sillysaurusx 2y ago
What else is on the list? That's interesting.
- k310 2y ago
  Shortly, I just rode out a heat wave. Glad to share. I'm 75 and very in tune with needs!
  - czbond 2y ago
    @k310 - I have to ask, is k310 your ham radio handle?
    - k310 2y ago
      k310 is both the Koechel number of a great Mozart piano sonata, but the office number I had at Itek Optical Systems in Lexington, MA, now something else. When I was crazy interested in ham radio as a kid, I didn't have enough money to buy or build any gear. I'd buy schematics and build stuff in my mind, which may account for some quirks, but they're almost entirely good quirks, which is why I am posting to help others, with problems way bigger than my own. Thanks for asking!
- k310 2y ago
  I can share some really important things I’d like to see for seniors. I am leaving out some innovative ideas that go beyond these, because “first things first”. Here are some. Anything to help low vision (and that’s a giant problem) One periodical I get has some white text on a bright yellow background. Solution: I wrote them. Waiting … Finding things, whether in the home or at local stores (whose inventory varies, as in “Stuff comes and goes at Trader Joe’s”) or even online (which is tough for many people since online stuff is largely bogus scams bolstered by SEO) Home and food and medicine inventory (data to be private and not fed to sellers, thank you.) Exoskeletons. This technology is already old. What’s the hang-up? Other mobility? Backpacks that have gyroscopes built in to stabilize people. Fall mitigation. TBD Finding real help nearby, trusted people, not “pay to get referrals” right now, as in “I’m in a jam”. Includes tech advice. And spares to loan. Filtering email and websites for scams and malware. Any sane noncommercial alternative to “social media”. (That’s a larger issue but very important in my mind, which is free of them) That opens the matter of getting important, pertinent, personal and timely news and situational awareness rather than noise. (See above) Creating secure family communications to bust AI-generated phony ransom calls (and more) Simple robotics, of the “bring your slippers and reading glasses” sort. Cellphone, too. Seems it’s always charging when I need it. Oh, and since I’m in the foothills, places to go when there’s an evacuation, power is out, and cool places to hang out. I think these address major unmet needs. I would hate to see them enshittified. Other ideas will improve quality of life, but first things first.
gumby 2y ago
A program that parses an arbitrary shelf label and then displays a large-print normalized representation (like the nutrition label) would be valuable.
- ChrisGranger 2y ago
  Like Firefox's Reader View for real life.
  - 93po 2y ago
    can i please also have ublock for real life, i am so tired of outdoor advertising, it's basically the only place i see ads now
    - 6510 2y ago
      vandalism as a service
      - 93po 2y ago
        i live in houston which was just hit by a hurricane - one of the upsides being most of the billboards have been shredded, which is a nice improvement over mind polluting ads thanks hurricane beryl
        gumby 2y ago
        The ban* on billboards on Interstate highways was thanks to a famous Texan, Lady Bird Johnson. * The few you do still see today are legacy billboards that date from when the legislation was passed, around 1965.
    - adamomada 2y ago
      Imho this is going to be the killer app for Vision headset type devices when they get cheap and available: An AI powered uBlock Origin that can recognize logos and advertising and blank them out.
ed 2y ago
iOS has a built-in app called “magnifier” which might be more handy than a lens!
- k310 2y ago
  Many product labels and prices are situated very high and very low. I end up taking a photo to capture the info. I also like to visit thrift stores, and being practical, I snap photos of weird and wonderful items rather than buying them.

chillingeffect 2y ago

Yep. Spend an hour with an elderly person trying to do things like change a password, unsub from a mailing list, connect a Roku, look at a digital photo album, etc. Will blow your mind wide open. We basically need an entire tier of easy internet for the elderly.

pzo 2y ago
Wouldn’t tech illiteracy eventually die out? Millenials are good with tech and gen z even better. It’s probably still a good niche for the next 20 years. On the other hand poor fitness and mental wellbeing seems affects all age groups.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Tech illiteracy will only die out if technology finally plateaus. The elderly were great with the technology that was popular when they were in their forties too, the problem is that technology didn't stand still from there.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  Tech literacy seems to be dropping with newer generations. I taught a basic after school coding class, and the first thing I had to teach was the concept of a file, a folder, saving and loading. These are things that everyone I went to school with understood in primary school. Apps have abstracted it all away, and now kids just go for the search bar.
- asveikau 2y ago
  I think normies (not hn reading outliers) in Gen Z and alpha may have regressed. Younger people come up in the era of devices and apps hiding the existence of a filesystem from you.
  - tcmart14 2y ago
    I don't think there is any regression. I think if anything, really overestimating how much people understood. Being a millennial and knowing a lot of other millennials and gen-xers, They can drag and drop, but they really don't understand much more than a folder is something files can go in. Files, you can tell them its fairy dust in a box and they'd believe it. Its just magic. I also work on a point of sale system with many users and clients who are gen-x and millenials, and seeing what customer support tackles, I don't think most normies ever really understood.

Mathnerd314 2y ago

I'm working on a fitness app, I was mostly thinking about myself but as soon as I looked at best-selling fitness books it was clear that the market was pretty much all seniors. Although it could just be that seniors like books more, I also found similar trends in other media.

lolinder 2y ago

> or wiping his butt Slightly weird take: bidets have this field fully covered and the only thing stopping them from being widely used (especially in this domain!) is user resistance to an unfamiliar solution to a very personal problem. We don't need new tech for this, we just need a marketing breakthrough.

asveikau 2y ago
User resistance only gets harder with older people. They will be set in their ways.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Yep, and that resistance will kill almost all attempts to design tech like this. Anyone who is interested in this space needs to look at what Kimberly-Clark did to make Depends a (more or less) accepted part of aging.
Duanemclemore 2y ago
Having worked in high end residential, I can tell ya the LAST person who's going to want to use a bidet is ironically also the hypothetical "grandpa" who's not rich enough to hire someone to wipe his a$$.
- episteme 2y ago
  I imagine you are allowed to say ass in this context :)
  - Duanemclemore 2y ago
    Aw, but it's funny to self-censor for no reason!
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Europeans have no problem using them

abhiyerra 2y ago

In about 5 years the baby boomers will have all hit retirement age. With social security and Medicare there will likely be a significant amount spent on healthcare taking care of this generation.

Rinum 2y ago

Big barriers to entry: regulation, liability, and reimbursement/payment

czbond 2y ago

Yes - but it is so hard to find persistence and passion for such problems (at least for me).

Duanemclemore 2y ago
I know where you're coming from, 100%. But I want to share something that's stayed with me to this day. When I was in graduate school for architecture fifteen years ago I saw a lecture by an architect I already respected greatly named Niall McLaughlin. He taught at the school (still does I think) so on four consecutive Wednesdays he gave these astounding two hour lectures. And he would take questions after until every question was answered. These events sometimes lasted 3 - 4 hours. The themes were "Architecture and ..." The two I remember without going back into my notes were "Architecture and Tools" and "Architecture and Memory." This whole shaggy dog story is because "Architecture and Memory" started at the philosophical level but by the end tied in to his own work on memory care facilities. He's a famous architect. Has since won the Sterling Prize, the biggest prize awarded by RIBA. A. Big. Deal. And I don't even know if he publishes his memory care facilities. But he got into that market - he shared with us - because he had a close family member who needed that care. Flash forward ten years and I'm spending time in a memory care facility with a very close family member. Thinking back to his experience, knowing how it felt. Realizing his personal empathy drove him to pursue a whole area of practice that most would never consider. I doubt he lost money doing these facilities but I can assure you he wasn't doing it for the high profit margins. I'm absolutely not knocking your statement. The exact opposite sentiment is coming through I hope. If it's an area you're interested in exploring how to delve into and develop ideas within - find a reason to care. What I mean is - if you're interested in developing solutions in the area find a way to identify a real world problem worth solving in it. Volunteer a little at a nursing home or community center with senior programs, meet people facing the issues that come with aging. Not to say you'd be doing it to be opportunist, but if you're looking for a "product market fit," start by observing the real and present every day challenges of the market. Use it to build the product story. I don't want to sound ghoulish in my biz-speak, but it's real - I think we all have personal experiences where knowing someone going through something gave us a reason to care about that issue in a broader sense. Good luck - it's an area that is flush with problems worth solving, and I think could be rewarding to explore.

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Duanemclemore 2y ago

Architect here. (the building kind.) "Aging in Place" and "Universal Design" are two of the most transformative, difficult, subtle, and important problems facing us today. Other countries are building social structures to address the systemic issues associated with aging. But because of the nature of our healthcare and bureaucratic systems, we have a unique need for interventions in physical conditions - be it small-scale building modifications or assistive technologies. So, especially if you want to innovate making -stuff- I concur wholeheartedly. That said - it looks like the comments until now on this are mostly looking at software-based assistive technologies. Which is ALSO a spot-freaking-on approach.

lcabral 2y ago

I think this is some already being looked at in some aging societies. Look at Japan and even China where they have a lack of nursing personnel. They are looking at the humanoid robot hype with a keen eye for supporting people in the future. And there are likely many other research being done with emphasis on these societies that could show us problems that need solutions.

cynicalsecurity 2y ago

There is no money in this business to make. Someone who didn't think of their old age in advance definitely hasn't got any money now. Sure, you can try to milk the government, but this is not really a sustainable business.

thornjm 2y ago
Many staff in different roles, 3+ shifts a day, 365 days a year is a lot of labour costs. Replacing even a fraction of labour is likely $100K a year of potential investment. More so in expensive labour countries.
donw 2y ago
Retirement homes are basically in the business of funneling the life savings of elderly residents into their own coffers. For a fully mobile senior requiring no additional care, you're looking at a minimum of USD $3500/month at an assisted living facility. Add in any nursing needs, and that number will quickly go north of $5k/month. Once you start heading towards your late 80s, that number again quickly doubles. Note that this does not include medical care, diapers, clothing, a phone, etc. And this is the bottom of the market. A higher-end home will run double if not more. In Japan, there are homes for every income tier, from "nothing more than a government pension" on up. Sure, the lower-end homes aren't great, but they beat homelessness by a wide margin. And these are private businesses, not government-run facilities.
- deleted 2y ago
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ggm 2y ago

Where i live in an apartment complex the ground floor retail outlets struggle. They'd make awesome podiatry, physio, optical, aged care, you name it. With increasing trend to care in the home, and with apartment living common for the elderly, these kinds of service tenancy seem like a no brainer: your clientele is all around you.

aaron695 2y ago

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000ooo000 2y ago

You've got it all wrong. Entrepreneurs aren't short on ideas; they're short on ideas that will make them rich. Why/Who's paying for a robot to wipe grandpa's butt when "there's a huge volume of exploited laborers keeping the system afloat"?

6510 2y ago
You could advertise the robot then send and exploited laborer to do the robot job as a success story, could have robot operators in far away lands and for select elderly a robot suit would be sufficient.
- warkdarrior 2y ago
  Is that going to be cheaper than actual immigrant labor?

rramadass 2y ago

I have been looking at this domain for a while now and thinking about how one might become a "Social Entrepreneur" in this domain. As an example, India has now included all senior citizens over 70 under its Universal Health Coverage umbrella (https://nha.gov.in/PM-JAY https://nha.gov.in/PM-JAY) and hence the need for these services/organizations have become more pressing. In developed countries with a large aging population the situation is even more dire. The main issues i can think of are; 1) Regulations - Govt. mandated laws on access to health records, personal liability etc. 2) Insurance - Can these services be charged under govt./private insurance schemes/claims? 3) Personnel Training - All employees must be trained in aspects of Nursing and People management, there must be on-call Doctors etc. 4) Wellness Centers - Places where the elderly can be brought in for regular companionship and prophylactic exercises. 5) Transport - A fleet of vehicles to transport the elderly to and from their homes. 6) Supplies - Medicines and everything else as needed. There are three main models that i can think of; a) The "standard" elder care homes which take care of everything for a fee. b) A live-in nurse/maid/caretaker employed through a agency (popular in developing countries) where the person lives with the family taking care of the elder. You pay a monthly fee to the agency and they pay the caretaker's salary after taking their cut. c) A on-demand comprehensive health services company. This can be a non-profit/for-profit organization offering various services (medical/support/companionship etc.) to the elderly who live alone or have nobody to look after them. Services could be offered based on the needs and on a yearly/monthly contracts or as needed per call. Think of it as Uber/Wework for Healthcare. I think this is the need of the hour since there is a huge population above 50 worldwide living alone. Just helping them maintain their health will go a long way towards easing the pressure on the healthcare system leaving the hospitals free to serve those who need it most. To drive the point home, watch this 3-part documentary series on "Living and Dying Alone in Singapore" to get an idea of what awaits many senior citizens - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d499mlwXWfk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d499mlwXWfk The organization mentioned in the above documentary and from which we can learn is here - https://chenghongwelfare.org https://chenghongwelfare.org

badpun 2y ago

The Japanese have been supposedly working on robots to support their aging population for a couple of decades now. It sure seems to be extremely difficult to make progress in this field (and in robotics in general). Also, as you noted, half the picture are people whose problems are self-inflicted, mostly due to bad lifestyles. Right now, companies profit off bad lifestyles (first by selling them and them by helping to manage consequences). No comercial entity will profit from population keeping itself healthy and balanced, as mostly involves substraction (NOT doing some things) and not addition (doing/buying). It's a awareness and policy issue, and can only be fixed through either campaigns promoting good living, and through policies which enable it (more vacation time for workers, healthier food in stores, less stress due to economic pressures etc.).

binary132 2y ago

The reality of elder care is that (especially) infirm old folks really need a lot of hard, difficult, unpleasant care that our economic system has made basically impossible for their children and extended families to perform, as would have probably been done in the past. This requirement isn’t going to go away. There will be no cheap, safe, efficient butt-wiping robot, and unmotivated, uninvolved third parties are going to keep doing lousy jobs and getting old folks hurt. Technology is not going to make much of a dent in this one.

octopoc 2y ago
This is true for most cases. However in my family we have special circumstances: because my grandfather is a veteran, my father is paid to take care of him. It is an absolutely phenomenal experience for our family and has brought us all together. If we could enable this again for everyone that would be good for everyone in terms of mental health.
- binary132 2y ago
  I think it would be great if states offered support to people who were willing to be caregivers to their elders and children. These are essential roles that cannot really be replaced.
- antiatheist 2y ago
  This is available to anyone in Australia, although ~$500-600 a week isn't enough to support the carer and the one they care for in most personal circumstances. https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/carer-payment https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/carer-payment
  - mettamage 2y ago
    Same in NL, I don't know about the pay though.
  - blackbaze 2y ago
    Minimum wage by contrast is $915 a week

snapplebobapple 2y ago

The corrollary of this is you need to hustle now because there is maybe 15 years left before the majority of boomers cease to be customers due to dieing and the next generation is much smaller. You need to capture yoyr market share now then weather 20 years of less exciting before the millenials ramp up demand hard again

kjkjadksj 2y ago
Just have n64s and phish cover bands in your nursing home and you will capture more of the aging gen x population than you will know what to do with.

aio2 2y ago

Not about your point to develop a new project, but is the population aging? I know in certain areas, yes, they are, but a quick look at one of those population pyramids shows places like the US, with a more even population age group, meaning the population as a whole isn't generally getting older. Please enlighten me though, I know almost nothing of this field.

dukeyukey 2y ago
The US doesn't have an even population pyramid, there's a bulge of late baby boomers and late millennials, but none for Gen Z.
- aio2 2y ago
  This is my source: https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2023/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2... As you can see, the percentages for each age group are close to each other, meaning it's more even.
  - djokkataja 2y ago
    It's called a population pyramid because the shape of that graph for a growing population is a pyramid. If you look at some of the African countries on that site (like, say, Uganda and the United Republic of Tanzania, if you're starting from the United States page), you can see they're closer to a pyramid shape because they have higher birth rates and higher mortality over time. Also, on the graph you linked to, you can click on the line in the graph of population versus year to the right, and if you start back in the 1950s and work your way along to the present, you can see the big lump of the baby boomers getting older. That's why people say the United States has an aging population.
  - dukeyukey 2y ago
    It's more even than most other developed countries, but it's easy to see there are _significantly_ fewer 0-4s than 30-34. In fact, there are less of every 5-year age group than the 30-34s. So yeah, that graph shows the US is, on average, getting older. Immigration helps patch the numbers a bit, but the US immigration system attracts older candidates than most.

r_singh 2y ago

Capitalism or things you can buy are only good for things that can be measured but there are lots of things that need to be and are done in the world everyday that cannot be measured especially coming to self care, child care and elderly care

guilhas 2y ago

Loneliness is a big one, maybe boomerMeetup.com Day centers for old people used to be very popular But I would say there should be better health lifestyle guidelines for everyone to avoid being incapacitated. How in rural Europe and Africa you still see 80 and 90 year olds still digging land, saw an 100 year old lady, in Africa, still doing accounting for local businesses Maybe is the lack of sleep, unhealthy food, too much coffee, alcohol excess, too many pills... but people should watch out the bill will come

bzmrgonz 2y ago

I think improvements to the electric-exo-skeleton contraption can keep the elderly mobile for an additional 10 years.. There comes a time when an elderly person cannot take a flight of 2 or 3 step stairs and that's when they stop moving, so if the exoskeleton can get them to the track or a flat area where they can walk, I think it can help tremendously. Additionally, I think those 2 circle zero gravity contraptions might help with circulation. As for the butt wiping, that's a tough one, but only because of the stigma associated with wearing anything on the sphincter, I can see a 12v electric sphincter dilating aparatus being very efficient in controlling bowel movement, but I don't see our childish society accepting them with a straight face.

bradgranath 2y ago

"There is a huge volume of exploited laborers keeping the system afloat." This is the problem that needs fixing. And not with fuckin' robots with butt lasers.

atemerev 2y ago
Err, how? They are doing it voluntarily. They want these jobs. They can work at other jobs too, but that would be an education startup opportunity.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  Voluntarily? As in they could just stop working and they'd be fine?
  - atemerev 2y ago
    As if they prefer this work to not earning money at all. Unless you are really rich, you can’t stop working and be fine too. I surely can’t.

SkyPuncher 2y ago

I actually ran a health tech startup in this space within the past decade. It’s basically a no go market. Patients don’t have the funds themselves. Those that do simply hire a dedicated, private staff. Children don’t want to pay for it since they view it as there parent’s expense. Everyone views it as a cost that the healthcare system should cover - even though there isn’t money for it.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
Your response makes sense to me, but it also highlights why I've become so disillusioned with "tech" generally over the course of my 25 year career. My optimism about tech used to be because I saw tech as solving humanities most pressing needs (even if it usually has unintended consequences like pollution, etc.) But now I see tech (most of the time, obviously I'm speaking in broad generalities) as not even bothering with pressing problems because you can make more money hijacking dopamine pathways to sell ads. I mean, when I think of tech that would actually improve my life I think about things like a clothes-folding machine, not a program that writes mediocre poetry.
- dingnuts 2y ago
  > think of tech that would actually improve my life I think about things like a clothes-folding machine, I think about this constantly, and it's a funny example because apparently the math involved for figuring out how to fold clothes is basically an unsolved problem. As I understand it the robotics -- also a very hard unsolved problem -- are the easy part, which should emphasize how horribly hard this problem is. Several other things: 1) I recently saw a LinkedIn lunatic claim laundry was already automated, because laundry machines exist (way to out yourself as someone who never helps with laundry) > mediocre poetry 2) I refuse to call language models "intelligence" until they can at least meaningfully contribute to the design of novel devices like the robots we are discussing. If it can't invent, it's not intelligent! Intelligent things are capable of novelty, not only regurgitating existing witnessed patterns.

instagib 2y ago

The exploited laborers part is true and you never know how the care is going. Someone noticed rashes showing up on an elderly person and installed an in bathroom hidden camera. They were leaving them in the bathroom for hours and exiting/re-entering through the window.

greentxt 2y ago

Inflation and fiscal irresponsibility are central to this issue. It just takes a really selfish generation and a political system that rewards myopic policy to create this sort of gerontocratic inequity. The fix is fiscal responsibility and fostering a culture of personal responsibility rather than a culture of "the government owes it to me" which is pretty obviously not sustainable. The sins of the father... There is no money here, only debts, both monitary and moral.

altdataseller 2y ago

If you think its such a huge obvious problem, i guess the obvious Q is why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and why aren’t you pursuing it? (Assuming you aren’t)

antwerp1 2y ago

…and let us know before your company goes public

written-beyond 2y ago

We've actually built something in this line and are in the process of open sourcing it in a few weeks. Very small underfunded team, which makes us a little slower.